What is a yard that everybody wants to introduce into my country? At school I was taught that 100cm is a metre. For as long as I can remember, my mother has always bought material by the metre.

Why do people want me to go back to the stone ages, and try to force me to learn a more difficult form of measurement when I have already learnt metric at school. Will they try to being back the shilling, because they think it's something that's true British, when it comes from the German word Schilling. I expect when the government changed money from that ridiculous form of money, into the easy 100 pence in the pound, there were some loonies campaigning against it. Why do they try and spread propaganda, and turn my country into a laughing stock, when we can only ever have real strength and pride by being part of a strong Europe that works together, instead of trying to cause arguments with Europe when it's only us who get damaged by it in the end, and the USA gains from it. Most economy books state that the USA gains from European mistakes and fights. What next, a campaign to bring back the Groat? Maybe they will get a few easily led Sun readers on their side.

It isn't as if you can't see any weights in pounds anyway. Anybody would think that the word pound has been banned. You just need to have both measurements on display. Is that such a hard thing to do?

Quote:
"It isn't as if you can't see any weights in pounds anyway. Anybody would think that the word pound has been banned. You just need to have both measurements on display. Is that such a hard thing to do?"
______________________________________________

Wow, is that right? All this fuss, on all these boards, and their imperial measures ain't illegal?

Wos' all the fuss about then? Is this sort of like a Flat Earth Society thing?

There are loads of really interesting boards out there on this internet - all types of communities - I'm debating with a bunch of crazy Yanks on another board at the moment who think war with Europe in the next 20 years is an option...

ps.
I don't think you'll find anything genuinely engaging on the AOL boards though - that seems to be a racist's arena for smug people with half a brain and too much money.

Suzanne: "It isn't as if you can't see any weights in pounds anyway. Anybody would think that the word pound has been banned. You just need to have both measurements on display. Is that such a hard thing to do?"

Under the 1994 Regulations, the use of the pound is banned for use in trade. Only metric is permitted.
BWMA

>>Under the 1994 Regulations, the use of the pound is banned for use in trade. Only metric is permitted.
BWMA<<

So why is it that whatever supermarket I've been into in this country, I have seen both types of weights?

I never ask for meat in a certain weight anyway. I always just ask the butcher to cut the meat where he puts the knife, and say how much I want from the size of the meat so that it looks like the correct amount of meat for the amount of people eating it.

I am very concerned about Suzanne. Do you have a Driving Licence? If so, please inform the Police and your local Driving Test Centre that you do not know what a yard is. You can scarcely be allowed to use British roads if you can't understand signs like: "Give Way 100 Yards" or "Lane Closed 800 Yards Ahead".

It must be hard for you if you ever watch football. Footballers take shots from 25 or 30 yards, score inside the '6-yard-box' etc. And if you saw Nicholas Wichell's report last night on BBC about the length of queues waiting to visit the Palace of Westminster, you would have failed to understand his stating: "The queue was several hundred yards long even at 6am in the morning".

Life must be hard for you.

Oh and by the way, how comes the euro has lost nearly 30% of its value against the dollar since being launched on 1 Janaury 1999 and 15% against the pound? And why is inward investment into Britain running at twice to three times the levels into France and Germany? And how comes Germany now has 4.3 million unemployed, France 2.5 million, and Britain less than 1 million?

If you really have trouble with our road signs, here's a quick guide:

100 yards: 91 metres and 44 centimetres
200 yards: 182 metres and 88 centimetres
1 mile: 1 kilometre, 609 metres and 40 centimetres (rounded up).

If you have trouble with deciding betwen 7" and 12" Pizzas:

7" = 17 centimetres and 78 millimetres
12" = 30 centimetres and 48 millimetres

If you have trouble deciding between an 8oz. steak and a 12oz. steak:

8 oz = 227 grams
12 oz = 340 grams.

For your figure:

Bust/hip measuremnts:

32 = 81 centimetres and 28 millimetres
33 = 83 centimetres and 82 millimetres
34 = 86 centimetres and 36 millimetres
35 = 88 centimetres and 90 millimetres
36 = 90 centimetres and 44 millimetres
37 = 93 centimetres and 98 millimetres (call it 94 cm)

24 = 60 centimetres and 96 millimetres (say 61 cm)
25 = 63 centimetres and 50 millimetres
26 = 66 centimetres and 4 millimetres.

Must be almost impossible for you to buy clothes. Do you take a conversion chart with you?

Tony Blair's baby announced as 6lb 12oz weighed 3.08 kilograms. Gordon Brown's baby announced at 2lb 4oz weighed 1.03 kilograms. Funny how these Ministers, making it a crime punishable by a £3,000 fine to sell by the lb, are happy to us these 'stone age' [is that Old Stone Age ('Palaeolithic'), Middle Stone Age ('Mesolithic') or New Stone Age ('Neolithic') by the way?] measurements.

If you have any trouble with these 'stone age' measurements, just put your query up here on the bulletin board and we'll all do our best to help you.

Oh and by the way a 'Quarterpounder' is 113.4 grams. Don't settle for a milligram less.

P.S. 'Stone age' measurements put the first men on the moon and armaments made from 'stone age' measurements won the last World War over metric armaments.

A Solicitor

Suzanne: "So why is it that whatever supermarket I've been into in this country, I have seen both types of weights?"

People may provide whatever information they like. You will also see information on the appearance of foods, its flavour, nutitional value, fat content, ingredients, etc.

However, none of this information forms part of the contract relating to weight and, according to the 1994 Regulations, neither does information in lb/oz.

A Solicitor, you talk of men on the moon. Are you one of the few remaining people who don't realise the Apollo moon landings were an elaborate hoax? For more info look here: http://www.aulis.com/nasa.htm

{A Solicitor, you talk of men on the moon. Are you one of the few remaining people who don't realise the Apollo moon landings were an elaborate hoax? For more info look here: http://www.aulis.com/nasa.htm}

Sorry man, you've been duped.

Very few people believe they were a hoax. Most of those that do are Flat Earther's or some other lame-brained sect.

This site explains it in more detail--and debunks the conspiracy theory:

http://www.apollo-hoax.co.uk/homepage.html

Sorry MW, but I've already checked out the debunkers, and their stuff don't wash.

... eg, take the hoax theorists photo number 6 on this page http://www.aulis.com/nasa6.htm

and then look at the feeble excuses on the debunkers page here http://www.apollo-hoax.co.uk/imagebasics.html

To "A solicitor" - just loved your post that ripped Suzzanne's to pieces! I was about to write one myself but you took every word out of my mouth!!! (we could do with you on the metric martyr forum site).

You missed out on one point though. Re-read suzzanne's post and you'll see that she bleats on about only being educated in metric (which is incorrect, by the way). However if you read her post carefully you'll notice that it seldom makes sense and commonly looks like a post made by a "pre-educated" person.

All this "edukashun" of hers must be straight from the "Mirror", I suggest!

She is an appalling spokeswomen for the metric and/or anti-US/UK side - they must cringe everytime she posts one of her "gems"

Poor Suzanne. She just couldn't help revealing the true motivation behind European 'integration': anti-Americanism. The point about metrication is not one of trying to revive long-dead measurements (though come to think of it, why not? We are supposed to be free people after all), but trying to preserve the legal use of measurements most of us use on a daily basis. People like Suzanne believe in only 'one right path' to 'progress' in which cultural diversity is snuffed out.

By the way, Bob, where are these sites discussing possible war between America and Europe they might be worth a read...

Hello G Brown!
EBN Rage is where you'll find the crazy Yanks
http://pub79.ezboard.com/bthx1138ebn
Look in the 'Serious Debate' section - swamped by stuff from people who want to fry Mumia Abu Jamal in the electric chair, opposed to people who want him retried.

What a great post by A Solicitor! One of the most cogent I've seen on any message board on any topic.

Inch and pound (on the bwma homepage masthead which says "campaigning for inch-pound industries and consumer interests") are, I think, Roman. In Britain even before Saxons arrived, was that AD 449?

Hope someone like Suzanne will post soon asking (in properly arrogant manner) "What is an inch?" or "What is a pound?" and recite a litany of bogus reasons why one ought not use those units as well.

If pound and inch continue as living units in Britain then I suppose you will eventually want to make some effort to regain the scientific high ground for them. The dominance of SI in science is not going to last forever. All scientists really need is a thoroughly decimal system. They have power-of-ten notation so they don't need all the fancy prefixes like "Giga" and "nano". So for the scientific community to use pound and inch is mainly just a matter of remembering to measure volume in cubic inches (instead of non-decimal multiples in the form of auxilliary units) and things like that. Students should probably have the option of working some examples in pound-inch units if they choose. Metric has no monopoly on precision or rigorous
definition so why not. A little conversion between systems needn't hurt.

"A little conversion between systems needn't hurt."

Except for a certain space shuttle, eh?

My take on that screw-up was that it happened because someone had NOT experienced at least two systems in his/her schooling and was NOT accustomed to ask, with every batch of data, "what units are these in".

I said: "Students should probably have the option of working some examples in pound-inch units if they choose. Metric has no monopoly on precision or rigorous
definition so why not? A little conversion between systems needn't hurt [the students or their education.]"

Your example of the NASA screw-up shows I should have put it more strongly. Not only does it not hurt to be exposed to more than one system in physics and engineering courses it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in order to produce minds with some degree of sophistication about units and measurement. People raised in an unexamined monoculture are liable to behave reflexively.

Like someone who speaks without thinking.

Thanks, Snade, for emphasizing this point.

I strongly agree with Suzanne's message above. It pretty much says all I wanted to say.

How many of you want a return to pounds, shillings and pence, by the way???

I love it!
Whenever the metric fanatics know they are losing (and supporting suzzanne's post, that *REALLY IS* losing!) they always revert to the pound/shilling/pence thing.

It's such a remarkably poor way to lose the arguement!

These people must lock themselves away all the time, either that or they are too ignorant of what the "common man and women" speaks on the street!

Blind to the obvious!

What I actually wanted to say is that I imagine that when decimal currency was introduced in the UK, there was probably the same debate as on these and the UKIP message boards (the two seem to be closely intertwined) along the lines of 'we don't want to be told what to use', and 'why change our money system when it's worked well for so long'. Surely pounds, shillings and pence was something the 'common man' on the street understood better?

There were probably the same predictions of doom and gloom then as there are now. Has the UK been harmed by the introduction of decimal currency? I think not.

Firstly I doubt these message boards existed when decimalisation of currency happened!
Secondly the reason why I say that it's a poor excuse of the metricator losing the argument is that the link is so extremely weak.
Look, If I say 2.5 feet or 2 and a half feet both mean the same thing but one is decimal. I have decimalised imperial! Not difficult to do is it without referring to metric?
Secondly the change of currency happened overnight. The L S and D did not exist the next day (I presume, I was too young to know!). If they metricated overnight the same thing would not happen! Like australians today we would still be happy quoting our height in feet and inches and knowing what it means (for example).
No, to metricate would be to change entirely the meaning and words and workings and relevence, ie you'd have to decimalise imperial to have the same affect as our currency change - the equivalent to "metricating" our money would be to change it completely (and have a conversion ratio). This would happen if we moved to the Euro, for instance.
"The Euro" is off topic here so I will go no further.
However I wish this L S and D excuse that metric fanatics use could be dropped - you make those in favour of imperial laugh, and those with a balanced argument of both cringe.
However I suggest that you'll still somehow mix up imperial with currency, it's your only scapegoat.

Let's see now, is time imperial or metric? Same daft arguement!

Actually, yes, harm *has* been done by abandoning pounds, shillings and pence.

This may be broken down into four aspects:

1. Yet another example of the English and the British being disconnected from our history
2. Loss of mental arithmetic faculties by children
3. Greater difficulty in relating to larger numbers
4. A huge increase in the cost of living.

Historical notes: Ever heard the expression: 'Sound as a Pound'? The pound's worth of coinage was always the same weight as a lb. - thus connecting coinage with weights and measures. The same as in Jewish society where a 'shekel' of silver was both a weight and a unit of currency. In 757 AD King Offa decided to divide the pound into 240 slivers of silver - thereafter called 'sterlings' after Stirling in Scotland...the silver used in the coinage came from the Ochil Hills near Stirling. The 240 pence to the pound carried on the tradition of weight equating to coinage since 240 pennies weighed exactly one pound.

Apart from the 'Sound as a Pound' expression, many others relate to our former coinage:

'Not got a brass farthing'
'Turned on a sixpence'
'Bob-a-Job Week'
'Bent as a nine-bob note'
'Honest shilling'
'Worth a few bob'
'Couldn't care tuppence'
'Fourpenny one'
etc.

Anyone who has studied the true history of decimal coinage will know that there was no justification for it, and that it was part of a deal between Harold Wilson and the E.U. leaders to soften Britain up for both compulsory metrication (i.e. the complete and utter oblitertion of our system of weights and measures) and the introduction of a Europe-wide economic and monetary union based on a unit of currency divided into 100 cents. Planning for this event can still be seen today with the changing of the font style on £10 and £20 notes and the introduction of the £2 coins which bear a remarkable resemblance to the new 2-euro coin.

2. It must be noted that the vast majority of British children not only coped with but *benefitted from* pounds shillings and pence. They learnt their 11 and 12 times table - very useful in all kinds of spheres but sadly no longer taught today. Countless generations of British market traders had no problem adding up in their head things like 1/7d, 2/6+3/4d, 7/4+1/2d etc. Today's children have substantially poorer mental arithmetic skills.

3. The pounds shillings and pence system contained the following units: guinea, pound, crown, half-a-crown, florin, shilling, penny, farthing (OK, the groat if you go back far enough). It's a fact that it's much easier to gauge the value or weight of something when reckoning up to, say, 12, 14, 16 or 20 rather than 100. Thus it's easier to comprehend the difference between say, 9 shillings and 15 shillings than between 45p and 75p - or between 8oz. and 12oz., and say, 225 grams and 340 grams.

4. The inreased inflation resulting from decimalisation in the U.K. is a proven historical fact, just as conversion to the ailing, failing euro has led to significant cost-of-living rises in all eurozone countries.

To all this it must be added that using pounds shillings and pence, Britain was the most inventive and progressive country in the world and for a long time its most powerful. Since decimal currency in 1971 and the European Communities Act 1972 we have rapidly lost the power to run our own nation. Our current recent run of prosperity is founded at least partly on our remaining outside of the eurozone, i.e. keeping our own currency, as witness 4.4 million unmeployed in Germany and 2.5 million in France. Not everything 'new' is progress, though fascists and communists both tried to convince the people otherwise. Metrication is associated with compulsion, lack of democracy, and obliteration of historical cultural differences between nations in their weights and measures.

In the French and Russian revolutions they even tried to decimalise the working week and in France the 24-hour clock was done away with for a time - in the interests of 'progress'. None of this worked; we are back to the 7 days of creation and a 24-hour distinctly non-decimal day and a 60-minute non-decimal hour, usually divided into halves and quarters not tenths.

'Bob'

Leonard - That was so not the point you were trying to make. I love the smell of spin in the morning. Metric might not have a monopoly on precision or rigorous definition (debatable), but it certainly has a monopoly on ease of use as far as learning the definitions of its units goes.
I don't think you can argue with the fact that it's easier for people used to imperial to learn to use metric measurements than it is for people used to metric measurements to learn to use imperial. Or maybe you think we should just teach the whole world both systems.

SteveH - Is time imperial or metric? It's either IMHO. The SI unit of time is the second, just as the SI unit of length is the metre etc etc. So amounts of time in science are measured in seconds, milliseconds, microseconds, but strangely not kiloseconds or megaseconds for some reason. Obviously this wouldn't really be practical for talking about the time of the day so for that purpose it is split into 'imperial' divisions. Well that's my opinion anyway.

{eg, take the hoax theorists photo number 6 on this page http://www.aulis.com/nasa6.htm

and then look at the feeble excuses on the debunkers page here http://www.apollo-hoax.co.uk/imagebasics.html}

The explanation is not feeble if you have even a basic understanding of how light would react in rugged terrain. But since you don't, your opinion is meaningless.

Next you'll be saying the U.S. government is hiding aliens at Area 51.

I've been trying to understand this discussion better.
Also (Hello Snade!) reply to Snade's remark "except for a certain space shuttle, Eh?" Not entirely sure what space shuttle Snade meant or exactly what the intended point was. I was talking about having several types of units used in education (esp. in phys. sciences and engineering). I think acquiring some sophistication and ability to cope with variety of units can help protect against blind naive screw-ups. But there are a bunch of larger issues. Here's an edited version of something I posted in reply to a message on another board which was similar in character to Snade's (and even Suzanne's!)We seem to get a standard decimalist litany raising, at least in my mind, several issues.

1. to what extent should the state decide on issues of language and culture?
Even in a representative democracy there is a different between allowing civil society the freedom to decide--and government merely facilitating (helping to standardize and ensure the accuracy of scales in this case)--versus government deciding what words and concepts people ought to use in thought and trade and implementing that with the force of law.

2. to what extent is it wise to stamp out diversity?
Diversity may have certain inefficiencies attached to it but it does allow play and evolution. The metric system is antiquated and from a physical science point of view has a lot of garbage conversion factors. Even some internal contradictions (in the way electrical quantitities are standardized versus how the units are defined.) Sections of the scientific community seem to be shifting towards a non-metric system (initially proposed in 1899.) SI is not the greatest and it is vulnerable to replacement. The utopian ideal of a single final system of units coincident with "Science" (capital S) is just a dream. So an argument can be made that diversity and the ability to evolve is very precious. The British system is an amalgam of remnants from earlier cultures. The Roman mile, the pace, the Roman pound and ounce, the foot the inch (also Roman) plus a lot of additional stuff. You can't predict which units from all that hodge-podge have the genes for a new better-than-metric system. So be careful what you kill off.

3. You, Snade, seem to love decimality. Please do not equate that with metric! There are several possible more consistently decimal system. Metric is an early, failed, attempt at a decimal system suitable for scientific work. The Systeme Internationale certainly has no monopoly on decimality, (or convenience, or precision!)

What SI certainly does have is a dominant position. As far as I can see this makes what diversity is left even more worthy of support.

BTW I object to students in the physical sciences and engineering being taught and working exercises in only one set of unit. It seems to lead to a lack of sophistication. A tendency assume that everything is in metric terms, unquestioningly. An inability to cope with conversions. A confusion of the physical quantity (e.g. the speed of light) with the number that stands for it in some particular system of units.

I also dislike the naive assumption that a single monolithic system of units should be used for all purposes--in lab, for scientific data, and outside on the road and in market. That picture seems childishly simple and a bit monotonous. Just my personal taste. Snade might prefer the total application of a uniform system.

MW, I understand perfectly well how shadows produce optical illusions on rugged terrain. You clearly don't understand how light from infinity throws parallel shadows. Sorry to crush anyone's pride in the American master-race, but the Apollo moon landings were quite clearly hoaxed, and the hoax debunkers efforts are a bit pathetic, to say the least.

Bob C,

I suggest you inquire as to the meaning of the phrase "multiple light sources."

Yours faithfully,
David Stephens, Esq.

"multiple light sources??"
OK, you got me. What do you mean?

Apollo astronauts took *no* lighting equipment to the moon - so the sun was supposed to cast parellel shadows. It didn't in the NASA photographs. Hoax debunkers claim uneven sufaces distort shadows, which is true, but they use cropped photographs to try and hide the true extent of diverging shadows. Some people think the shadows laying in different directions are the result of multiple light sources. From what I see, it is *divergence* shadows, from a single light source placed too close to the film set. The hoaxers would have been more convincing if they could have placed their light source further away, but as light intensity diminishes logarithmically with distance (double the distance, quarter the light), they took a chance - but they fooled a lot of people for a long time. The funniest footage I've seen to date is the shot of Apollo 17 blasting off from the moon, to bring the astronauts back home: The camera zooms and tilts upwars to follow the lunar module as it ascends. Who the hell got left behind, operating the camera? lol

The topic is units like it says in
Suzanne's "what is a yard" message
and here are a couple of philosophers talking
about what, optics? perspective?
how different kinds of lenses might form
images parallel lines? No, but maybe they
will get to that in time.

Is there a general impulse to get spooked
by the unfamiliar and to veer off topic?

I was quite spooked by "william's
question" because it seemed disconnected from
the discussion of units and involved things
like beacons that I had never heard of.
And then my computer started having
fits. But I was mistaken. It turned out that
beacons were real and the question made sense
and somebody eventually (after what seemed a
long time) answered it. Apologies to all.

Maybe others besides me are also tending to veer from
topic? And if so why? What is so interesting about
the rumors surrounding Area 51 and about the
Apollo hoax theories? And what is the connection with
criticism of the metric system?

The phoniness that is relevant to units (if you are looking for fakery) is the phoniness of the metric system--official SI version--which pretends to be uniformly decimal and scientific. At least the traditional units are not presented in such a pretentious fashion.

The natural proportions that matter, relating wavelength and frequency and energy and mass and gravitational attraction and temperature, the fundamental ratios built into nature, are arbitrary numbers when expressed in SI terms. For example the speed of light is not a round number but instead is garbage: 299792458 meters per second. About all that SI manages to make a round number is the approximate distance from the equator to the north pole and the approximate density of very cold chemically pure water.

If the system were being re-invented what would be made round numbers (powers of ten) would be speed of light, planck's and boltzmann's constants, electron charge--basic proportions in nature--not dinky stuff
that somebody was thinking about in 1790.

And the people who use the system are never going to decide to renovate their units? Don't bet on it.

Whats a yard?

Hmmm, let me guess...

I know!... A place for dumping clapped out cars?

If I found a clapped out car in my back yard I would not be impressed, believe me!

I just saw 'The Weakest Link' on the telly, and one of the questions was, "how many yards in a mile?"

The unfortunate contestant got the answer wrong. The correct answer was one thousand seven hundred and something yards - I can never remember the answer to this question, and don't have a clue how many feet are in a mile.

Thank god we have metric. Brilliantly simple. 1000 metres in one kilometre. I could remember that in my sleep.

The imperial system however, is for some strange reason supported by a lunatic fringe who somehow enjoy their pedagogue style laughter and belittling of people like me who can't be bothered to remember their daftly complicated system.

If so many of the British people are so very much against metric, as this board would suggest, then why isn't there a greater element of popular protest against it? Even at the various stages in the past few years when another element of the metric system was introduced, there was hardly any serious protest.

When decimal currency was introduced, I'm sure that many people continued to think in pre-decimal money for a while but that this then began to die out after a while. How many people think in pounds, shillings and pence now?

Maybe it's time to metricate speed limits and distances too. After all, don't all cars these days also show km/h as well as mph?

There are 1,760 yards to the mile, but it is not necessary to know this for most purposes. A mile is a mile and a yard is a yard. That's it.

Why is there not more protest about Britain going metric? - asks Peter H.

Because people are more intersted in entertainment, pleasure and sport these days. Witness the hectares of space in the newspaper about Beckham and Sven-gali.

Because the media are controlled by a group of people with a very particular agenda. They produce piece after piece which promotes the metric system and it does not articulate the views of the anti-metric protestors. When have you heard a government Minister aggressively challeneged by e.g. Jeremy Paxman about the iniquity of criminalising an Englishman for selling in his own weights and measures?

Because people have ben told that metric is 'progress'.

Because we are becoming an anaesthetised people, either accepting what government and officials do, or being just plain apathetic about what they do.

Because the metric system is bieng imposed in a manner similar to the 'cultural revolution' in China - i.e. indoctrination - being ordered to use metric in the classroom, notably under the national curriculum which over the past 20 years has insidiously promoted the metric system and taught children to neglect their own system of weights and measures.

Going metric is more of a nuisance to most people than something which really fires them up to write letters to their MPs.

If people *knew* what was happening to their centuries-old democracy - i.e. knew it was being replaced stealthily by an undemocratic European empire heading towards totalitarianism, they *would* do something.

Eradicating British weights and measures is just one aspect of our culture and tradition that the current European and British political elite are doing away with.

Remember the words of Brock Chisholm, Director of the World Health Organisation, addressing the United Nations in the 1980s on the subject of how to achieve One World Government: "To achieve One World Government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, and their national identification". It's all happening around us right now, just as they have planned.

Still, if a few people start making enough noise, maybe some people will start listening. All the surveys show that there is overwhelming preference for Imperial over metric. They prefer Imperial but are too apathetic to realise it will be eradicated and to work to save it.

'Anaesthetised' (but still conscious)

^ See what I mean about the lunatic fringe? ^

Yes.

I think 'Anaesthetised' must have been having a bad day! That was waaaaaay too deep!
Besides, imperial *is* taught at schools, admittedly not as the 'default' measuring system. The default one is 'metric' so that when the kids leave school they can completely forget about it and start "talking" imperial (LOL).

Bob, I need to say "goodbye" to you apparently because "you *ARE* the weekest link" (or something). I admit I don't readily remember how many yards in a mile - but there again it took me 6 months to remember my own telephone number!!! The point is I have NEVER needed to know the figure (apart from general knowledge quizzes at the pub!) Wanna know why? Cos imperial is usually fractionalised. Eg. "The town centre is one and a quarter miles away", no-one says it as "thousands of yards" or "one mile 400 yards [approx]). Under a qtr of a mile people we tend to say things like "it's about 300yds on your left" (ie and not "279 yards and 1 foot three inches on your left")

So lets not be daft - just go out and listen to how people talk and you'll soon pick it up!

The lunatic fringe are those who preprepare their height in cm so that when someone cocky like myself comes along and says "alright then, how tall are you?" They can readily answer in converted cm!!! (I then ask them for their waste measurement- that usually does the trick!)

Me cocky?
(don't answer that!)

Peterh: there have been popular protests against it - I was on one (we marched passed pic' circus and to trafalgar square where the whole square was taken up with people and all surrounding blocks). There was no "counter" demo that usually comes with the territory (I wonder why?!?!?).
Strange though - such a huge demo not ending up on the TV screens! - anyone hazard a guess why that might happen? Hmmm...

Also - I'm not going into the currency debate - those on the pro-metric side (all seven of them in the UK) use that one when they've lost the arguement so I hear you there, Peter! (P.S. Those on the pro-imperial side who [rarely] find themselves on the losing side have an equivalent theme - "time", thus I will not go there either! [- cue the SI debate!!!....])

Also, yes there is kmh on speedos these days - almost unanimoulsy ignored -apart from the lunatic fringe who do careful calculations in their head whilst reading the 'small print' on their flippin' dashboards.

Hey, if they *do* convert road speed signs to metric I'll be forever filling out insurance claim forms 'coz I'll be spending have my time squinting at my dashboard rather than at the road.

Or perhaps I could see "100" in a red circle and actually "go" 100 (you know what I mean, admit it!).

Sorry officer I thought .....(etc).....

Now come on BobC (etc) get typin' while the blood pressure's on full tilt!

QUOTE:
"Strange though - such a huge demo not ending up on the TV screens! - anyone hazard a guess why that might happen? Hmmm..."
------------------------------

Steve, this is not a guess, but FACT:- The BBC is BIASED *stunned silence*

The BBC's stated policy is to not cover any of the dozens of 'single issue' mass demos in London each year, unless there is violence. The bias is exposed when they give coverage to marches by the Countryside Alliance, even when no violence occurs. So don't worry Steve, don't take it personally if your little group of loons is excluded from an even share of TV propaganda.

Tcha!

Not even SkyNews though....

QUOTE:
"Not even SkyNews though...."
---------------------------------

Steve, shhhhh, mate, or people will think you are a proper paranoid loony. The answer is simple, my simple chum - metric rules.

"Metric Rules"...?

The only ones I have seen have metric on one side and proper measures on the other side!

QUOTE:
"proper measures"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

What are your 'proper' measures Steve? Two short Plancks?

Rule Britannia, eh?

re: LSD (sorry OT)


Unfortunately, a change back to £sd would not be possible, due to infalation, but perhaps we may have a copper 5 and 10p, and so on, so that 5p is taken as a penny and not a shilling. Just an idea...

^ Bryan ^

ha ha ha he he he

Keep it up! Your anti-metric friends need only a little encouragement with LSD.

If the 5p becomes a single "unit", be it penny, shilling or bob, that will make 20 such units to the pound. We will be off the decimial scale!

An opportunity was lost in 1984 when the government introduced the 20p coin. If they had brought in a 25p coin (like the US 25c coin), then we would be one step in the right direction.

Perhaps a "decimal LSD" could be introduced:
5p = 1 bob
5 bob = 1 crown
4 crown = £1

...or something along those lines. In that way, we restore the correct divisions of coinage without directly challenging the current decimal fad.

Please, please, please no return to LSD. I was born six years after its abolition. I remember learning about it in primary school for a project on Victorians and really did not like it. What's wrong with decimal currency anyways? Is it really so hard?

I can just about understand people wanting to hang on to imperial measurements (not that I'm in favour of them myself) but a return to LSD? That really would be a severely backward move!!!!!!!!!!!! What's more, it would confirm the at times typically English attitude of 'why make things easy when you can make them complicated?'

Bob C, any thoughts?

Bob C: Sorry, but I really don't understand any of your comments- where do *you* stand?

SteveH: Imperial is *not* taught in schools. People only know how long a mile is etc, as their parents teach them. There is no equality in this country- whether the metricheads like it or not, imperial is not taught and there is no "peaceful coexistance" between imperial and metric.

Well said, Peter.

I think the pro-imperal measures lobby has something in it's character which craves the return of LSD. Most of them are a bit timid about 'coming out' on the issue, for fear of ridicule, but with a little coaxing I am sure we can get them to make us laugh some more.

I'm afraid I don't agree with you: most people who prefer imperial do not want to return to Lsd (I'm not too sure on returning to it either), but the fact is, that the old system had a lot going for it.

Answer to one poster: I prefer decimal currency. It's nothing to do with measures since different measures can co exist, different currencies can't (apart from the handovers to Euros in Europe - but that's a different question).

To Barry: Sorry mate imperial *IS* taught in schools (I quote "to know how to use common imperial measures still in use today")

When I was in school (80's) it was abolished, it has been re-introduced since (but not as the defailt measure).

Sorry about that but it's absolutely true, no matter how hard that is for you to stomach.

Interesting reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/maths/shape/measuresrev3.shtml

Sorry got carried away there what i should have said was:


"Sorry about that but it's absolutely true, no matter how hard that is for the metricheads to stomach."

(and not "Sorry about that but it's absolutely true, no matter how hard that is for you to stomach.")

Sorry if it sounded all "personal" the first time!!!!

Hello SteveH, Bryan, Bob, Peter, RL,

maybe a yard is about the length of
a morris dancer's stick.
It is around 7:30 in the morning and we
just got back from an open hilltop east of
town where every May first they dance the sun
up.

The morris teams are about half women and
the guys are all ages and they know
their steps. It is pretty good for a North
American offshoot.

They got the bystanders to join in the singing
and even got us into a big circledance towards
the end.

They start dancing when it is still dark.

Someone told me that morris dancers are so
prevalent in England as to constitute a nuisance.
But here not. Rare treat actually.
Only see them a couple of times a year.

Anyway, answer to Suzanne's question is that it
is the length of the stick they whack with
when they dance.

Cheers,

L

"To Barry: Sorry mate imperial *IS* taught in schools (I quote "to know how to use common imperial measures still in use today")

When I was in school (80's) it was abolished, it has been re-introduced since (but not as the defailt measure).

Sorry about that but it's absolutely true, no matter how hard that is for you to stomach."


You *are* wrong. I finished the education system *much* later than you (I am the so called "metric generation"- under 25s. I know for a fact that metric is the only system taught, occasionaly a question such as "how many pounds in a stone and a half [1 stone=14 lbs]" is asked, but not very often at all. It is difficult for *you* but metric takes precedence (unfortunately)- imperial is not taught!

I prefer Imperial, but I am telling you as a stone iron clad (and so on) fact, that imperial in not taught.

By the way, my name is "Bryan Parry", not "Barry" :)

Your post proves that imperial is still taught (like on that hyperlink that I sent).

I never said that it took preference over metric - metric is taught at schools over imperial. Only "life" can sort that out!

:)

To Leonard-

As far as I know Morris dancing is only done deep in the SouthWest of England.

I've never actually seen it happening - looks a bit weird to me. (Not my cup of tea).

People like Suzanne (the original post) seem to like to equate Morris dancing to all that is bad about England! As far as I know it causes no harm to anyone!

Still, all the anti brits (and anti-US) people out their will make any claim to further their love of all things "metric", no matter how daft they sound!

We have Morris dancers here in the English South Midlands too. I'm with you on this one Steve - very strange folk indeed!

I'm not sure exactly what is taught in schools. All I know is that my 10 and 7 year old kids know how long a centimetre or metre is by instinct, but they have to ask me for help every time they come across imperial measures. At 40 years old, I'm familiar with imperial, but I remember being taught mostly in metric - a much simpler system, and the one I prefer.

And if traders get upset about being forced to sell in metric, that is just tough. If you are SELLING something then it would be STUPID to expect 100% of the population to understand your outdated system. For traders to gripe on about it on these boards, they must expect us, the purchasing public, to help them reintroduce a system that would leave large numbers of us vulnerable to deception or fraud. I, for one, would always seriously question the motives of any trader who tried tinkering with generally accepted weights & measures.

This is what I don't understand about those who really believe that the UK is a metric country - let me explain, you say:-

"And if traders get upset about being forced to sell in metric, that is just tough. If you are SELLING something then it would be STUPID to expect 100% of the population to understand your outdated system"

Now, if we look at independant polls we see anywhere between 85% and 95% "think" and want to buy in imperial - that's just a fact (based on opinions).
This means that your quote requires us to sell things to people in a way that only 5 to 15% are comfortable with or want. Does that sound fair or democratic?

I've no doubt 5 to 15% of the British public can speak fluent French, but then we wouldn't expect the staff at Tesco to communicate with us in French only?!?

(Bad example actually since Tesco are using imperial predominantly! but hopefully you get what I mean)

Also, I don't have kids - the closest I can claim to that is cousins - 15 and 18. They use a mix of metric and imperial however the predominant "casual" conversation only includes UK measures.

Steve, every building site I've worked on, the measurments have been in millimetres. We "think" in metric and buy in metric, so I dunno what you are talking about, mate.

I can see where you're coming from Bob.

You are one of the 5% to 15% who think in/prefer metric units, referred to in the previous posting (though I bet a few quid you normally give your height in feet and inches, your weight in stones and pounds, and know how many miles, not kilometres, it is to the coast).

In a democratic society, the majority view should prevail. Particularly so in this case where the majority view is held by 85% to 95% of us.

That is where we are coming from.

Tony Bennett

I remember a poll when Maggie Thatcher was in power, asking readers if they thought 'The Sun' newspaper was a 'Labour' or 'Tory' rag. The overwhelming majority put it as a Labour paper. Can't you anti-metric people see when we, the public are humouring you?