Why is there so much opposition against a rational system that used by most of world population ? After all, a union always means compromise. You cannot expect to only benefit from a union and never give in. If we never wanted to compromise on any of our traditional values, we would have better never joined the EU. And adopting a new system of measurement consequently means abolishment of the old system, otherwise we would not gain anything except even more confusion, right?

If "union" with foreigners means the destruction of our traditions and liberties (which evidently it does) - we don't want it! This is precisely what we have fought numerous wars over the centuries to avoid - against the Spanish, the French and the Germans - our traditional enemies. The europhiles insist that things are different now, that the continentals no longer want to conquer and rule us, that the French are no longer the fanatics of the French Revolution, the Germans no longer the thugs of WWI & WWII. If so, then why won't they leave us alone?

Even in this forum, all the continental european posters, without any exception that I can recall, support the tyrannies of the EU and want their allegedly rational systems imposed upon each of us by force. Not one is willing to leave it to our individual personal choice - nor even to the wishes of the majority of British people. So - have they changed? Or are they still the statist bullies and oppressors we know from history?

So, in order to keep our imperial system you want to leave the EU ?

If the majority of the population thinks that keeping the imperial system (which is, in the (very) long term, almost certain to die out) is more important than having a flourishing economy, we should leave the union indeed. But I know there is enough common sense in Britain to realize that we just can't stay as economically strong as we are right now if we'd leave the EU. In other words, the "imperialists" will have reconcile themselves to the fact that long-term economic prosperity is linked with giving up our imperial system.

"Why is there so much opposition against a rational system that used by most of world population "

Two things, First I'm not against metric! I want to choose and I want the choice - that's all. Second, be careful when you say "most of the world population". Along with other metriphiles you mix up "people" with "country/government". There are a lot of people in UK and US (two very powerful nations) and there are a lot of people who still "speak" imperial in the commonwealth. You are correct if you say "most countries use metric"

"And adopting a new system of measurement consequently means abolishment of the old system"

That's like saying "all people should speak english for business so lets abolish french, german, etc" !! Good if you're an extremist - fortunately most of us aren't and we get uncomfortable with a word like "abolish" being banded about

"we just can't stay as economically strong as we are right now if we'd leave the EU"

Is that so? Why then are we a net contributor to the EU?

Are you claiming to be British now? I thought you were a German. You certainly sound like one.

What evidence do you have that the imperial system is almost certain to die out in the very long term? What evidence do you have that the metric system will not die out also (or instead)?

What evidence do you have that Britain would not continue to be among the world's four strongest economies if we left the EU? What evidence do you have that, freed of the colossal burdens of EU membership, we would not rapidly overtake Germany? - or non-EU Japan? - or even, on a per capita basis at least, the non-EU US?

If I am forbidden to buy what I want to buy, I am poor - no matter how much money I may have in the bank. So if we are forced to buy only in metric and forbidden to buy in British units, we will be poor for ever.

Steveh wrote: "That's like saying "all people should speak english for business so lets abolish french, german, etc" !! Good if you're an extremist"

You're mixing up two different things. All the EU wants is to make the EU market more transparent. This means, among others, that all goods have to be sold in kilos, litres or millilitres and centimetres. What you do at home, is none of the EU's business. They only deal with economic transactions, that's all. So if you wish, you can keep you pounds, inches, feet and pints, but NOT if you're conducting economic transactions. Is that so oppressing ? By the way, in business EVERYBODY already SPEAKS ENGLISH ! But at home, they still speak German, French, Greek, Japanese,... With weights it's just the same: for trade purposes, use the international standard. At home: use whatever you like !

Paul Birch wrote: "Are you claiming to be British now? I thought you were a German. You certainly sound like one."

I was born in Belgium and moved to the UK when I was 14. I really like it here and I feel quite British, but the imperial devotion of many Britons annoys me a bit.

"What evidence do you have that the imperial system is almost certain to die out in the very long term?"

Even in the US more and more companies go metric because they think (they know) it's better for business, because the EU and Japan for instance, reject goods that are not sold in kilos or in other metric units.

"What evidence do you have that the metric system will not die out also (or instead)?"

-Because too many people use it. It's easier to abolish a system that is used by the minority of the world population, than the predominant system of measurement.

-Because for example third world countries will not adopt an illogical system. That's why the metric system is most likely to be fully adopted by the other countries in the world. (And please spare me your claim that the imperial system is logical, because it simply isn't !)

"What evidence do you have that Britain would not continue to be among the world's four strongest economies if we left the EU?"

Because a country simply can't survive anymore without partnerships. We need each other. Unite or die in a world that becomes smaller and smaller.

"So if we are forced to buy only in metric and forbidden to buy in British units, we will be poor for ever."

Don't dramatize things please.

Why shouldn't I dramatise things when foreigners come here and try to force us to do things a foreign way? And then use expressions like "we" to make it appear they're one of us. If they like metric so much why can't they go home and leave us to use our own units in peace?

What units I choose to use, whether at home or out shopping, is none of your damned business, none of the government's damned business, and most of all, none of the EU's damned business.

It's a lie that "more and more companies in the US are going metric". On the contrary, more and more of those whom the politicans bullied into going metric are now reverting to customary units, because the American public objected. Japan does not require imports to be in metric quantities. Indeed, not even the EU does.

Furthermore, whatever companies may do in response to the political climate of the day, they cannot stop ordinary people using imperial measures. Even two centuries of extreme measures, including massacres by state troops, have not succeeded in obliterating all customary units from France.

Your "evidence" thus amounts to no more than an unsubstantiated claim or wishful thinking.

So what if a majority of the world population allegedly uses metric? Once upon a time almost everyone used commodity money (copper, silver, gold). Now almost everyone uses fiat money (government paper). And I'd bet my bottom dollar that at some time in the future that will change all over again.

Political fashions are here today, gone tomorrow, along with the clever schemes once thought so wonderful (so wonderful they've always had to be imposed by force). But tradition lasts, and outlasts them. The Roman Empire is long gone, but Latin, denigrated as a "dead" language for more than a thousand years, is used today by more people than ever lived in the entire Roman Empire, and read fluently by more people than ever lived in Ancient Rome.

No developed country needs political partners. It can live without them. It can trade without them. Indeed, it can trade much more freely and much more profitably without them. For that matter, it doesn't even need external trade. It can produce everything it needs itself.

You imply that Britain "could not survive" without the EU. Now who's being foolishly dramatic? Not to mention insulting. Stop with the stupid propaganda. In precisely what way would leaving the EU destroy (or even damage) our economy or security?

Yes, maybe - but an 'ivory tower' kind of rationalism, which produced an *artificial* system - divorced from the *humanity* of British weights and measures and indeed all other 'natural' weights and measures systems, related to dimensions the human mind can grasp and visualise.

Rather similar to the daft 'rational' schemes dreamt up by E.U. bureaucrats, disconnected from the real world in their ivory towers in Brussels, Luxembourg and Strasbourg, e.g. how to (mis)manage fishing resources in the North Sea...

Tony Bennett

It's a funny thing, but you obviously notice that many things are packaged and sold in metric equivalents of Imperial eg. a 568ml "Pint" of Sarson's vinegar, but more often than not, things are packaged in a metric fashion without the intent of being a translation from Imperial, but they are (more or less) in any case. By this I mean, it is bizarre, perhaps, how often things are packaged and ued in terms of Imperial ratios and sizes- 3,6,12/4,8,16- or are 30ml, 60ml, 120ml, 240ml, 600ml and so on. Is this because that these numbers (and their corresponding sizes) are very practical? I believe so.

In short, "Imperial", or rather, units of a Roman origin or vernacular *will* outlive metric as they simply more practical. Although, I would like to say, I really am not up for Andrew's idea of getting rid of the yard and replacing it with the old Roman pace of 60 inches- that size is not convenient in my view.

[[So if you wish, you can keep you pounds, inches, feet and pints, but NOT if you're conducting economic transactions. Is that so oppressing ? By the way, in business EVERYBODY already SPEAKS ENGLISH ! But at home, they still speak German, French, Greek, Japanese,...]]

In Germany when I would go into the bakers to
buy a "pfund" of bread I would have to speak German.

I would not want my German friends to be forced to
speak English in economic transactions (and only
get to speak German inside their houses.)
Your picture of the world is crazy. The great languages deserve to live in the civil society at
large (not just inside the home) and they will IMHO
stay alive.
It is simply not true that everybody is "conducting
economic transactions" like buying wine, bread, milk
only in English and only getting to talk mothertongue
at home inside house.

Government should confirm what is chosen in the civil
society.

I love doing my "economic transactions" in traditional units. I always buy milk in the big gallon containers and I buy a pound loaf of bread (same as I did in Germany). A lot of my pleasure in language and history and life is outside the house in the civil society.

It is mad to claim "economic transactions" can only
be done in English or in certain specially sanctioned
official units.

BTW it is not unlikely that sometime scientists will
be using a system with G a millionth, c a billion, and h-bar also a power of thousand. If it is a purely decimal system then there would be gallon containers, 4.2 of your "litres" Conrad. The gallon is one of those units defined by nature and the number ten.
I am sorry if that sounds strange to you but it means that gallon (more exactly 4221 cm) has longterm prospects.

The burden of proof is on you if you want to assume
that the "litre" will outlast the gallon in human history. The gallon is the volume one would use for measures of that scale if one likes conversions factors like G, c, h-bar, e etc to be powers of thousand (and what scientist wouldn't given the choice.)

Persistance of metric ultimately depends, it would seem, on people not being given choice.

What is bugging you, conrad. Long ago on another
thread you said you grew up in Belgium with kilometers on the roads and one of the big plusses of taking a
vacation on continent was to again see kilometers on
the roads. This I can understand. You came to UK at
age 14 and became Brit.

You are not a good pro-metric propagandist so you
should stop that and contribute to understanding.
The 14 year old Conrad still wants to see kilometers
on the roads. AND THE SIGNS DON'T HAVE TO SAY KM.
they can just be a circle with a number. Culture and
symbols out in public space are really interesting.
I wish for less propaganda and more interesting stuff. The appealing thing is the round sign with just the number. I am guessing. correct me if I am wrong.

{Because a country simply can't survive anymore without partnerships. We need each other. Unite or die in a world that becomes smaller and smaller.}

You're one of those nuts who want to establish a world government, aren't you?

You can buy milk by the gallon now!? What on earth!? The last time I checked, the largest container was 4 pints!!! Please Leonard, tell me where to purchase this magical "Gallon-milk" from.

"You're one of those nuts who want to establish a world government, aren't you?"

I seriously fear he may be.

Can we refrain from calling each other nuts, please.
Thank you.

Bryan it is very kind of you to ask where to
buy gallon containers of milk.

(I feared I had offended you with my boistrous
excitement about the pound-inch system which has
many delightful things about it for physics coursework
and is not intended to impinge on daily life.)

Don't you realize that I am a Californian!!!???

Of course I buy gallons of milk. We all buy
gallons of milk. And applejuice. And spring water.
They are in every one of our air-conditioned and
hated supermarkets! We even buy low-grade WINE in gallon containers. Don't you understand about the West Coast.

BTW in the Roman army the most common type of
helmet was the "galeta" made of leather.

The metal helmets were more expensive and only certain
people wore them and they were called something else.

A person whose gallon-sized head was protected by
a "galeta" was called a "galeatus" and most people were that and when they were thirsty

they stopped marching and went down to the river and
dipped a gallon of water up in their galeta.

But that is not the etymological origin of "gallon".

The word comes from a medieval French word for bucket.

I pity you for living in UK where beverages can only be bought in half-gallon. We must keep Rabelais spirit alive and he would have wanted beverages in gallons.

Cheers, not everything in this post is serious.

L

Ah yes, but our pint of beer/lager/cider is bigger than your pint!

And it's Friday........

And it costs us, at least, £16+ per gallon of beer- how much does it cost state-side?

I cannot joke about beer right now.
the problem with commericial beer in US
is quality (not, I think, price)
it is not very interesting to drink
yesterday something wonderful happened to
me
I was at the house of some old friends
(going back to 50s) and their son who is
an intelligent well-spoken person had, on his
own, mastered the art of brewing both very dark
and also moderately light.
He has an old refrigerator in the basement
and various pressurized vessels.
Home-made beer (when made by someone who
has read the classic Greek and Latin authors)
is totally beyond comparison with commerical
US supermarket beer. Also there are seemingly
unlimited amounts of it. And different batches
must be tried out.
I am thinking of going back to bed after
I have had coffee.

Bryan, you asked about price of beer
As it happens although I rarely buy beer
I went to "costco wholesale" today and bought
a case of Becks (24 bottles each 12 fluid ounces)
for $19 plus the deposit for the glass bottles
which doesn't count because you get it back
when they are empty.

In supermarket single 12 oz bottles are about
one dollar but you see I just paid $19 for 24
which is a little better and why I buy a lot of
stuff in quantity at "costco", a kind of warehouse
store down in industrial district.

Becks is a light-colored beer-like liquid which
my wife and some of our friends enjoy. I never
drink it. Never. I would rather drink tea or
lemonade in the afternoon, by far.

Bryan, you said rather sadly one time that you thought maybe you should go off by your self and "learn some physics". This is a melancholy thought. I do not recommmend thinking that way.

You are a good observer of human behavior and much can be learned directly about nature and universe by observing how people behave.

Here is an alternative to "learning some physics" which might be enlightening.
VISIT THE NIST SITE AND notice that there is a short list of "Universal Fundamental Physical Constants" and that there is only one length in that whole list and that multiplying it by E38 turns it into a mile.

That is all. That is all! We evolved from fish that crawled out onto the mud and constructed websites.
We fish have examined the inner proportions of nature
including the most universal aspects of nature like light and gravity. We fish have made a list of
Fundamental Physical Constants and within that list
there is a SHORT list of UNIVERSAL fundamental physical constants. A certain mass, a certain speed, etc. And there on the list is a certain length--the
universal and fundamental length--and if you zap it by the number E38 (that is 10^38) it becomes a mile
just like the miles along the road in UK and US.

Our type of fish have high respect, even a kind of reverence, for this small list of things, this speed, this mass etc. because they so everywhere and so deep in nature.
We are used to them reappearing over and over again in whatever we investigate. Recurring themes in nature.
So we have made this little basket, a special website,
and put these very few things in it. The best Easter Eggs that we have found since crawling out onto mud.
The very best sea shells.

So visit the site. THERE IS NO NEED TO UNDERSTAND just
observe human, in this case NIST, behavior and know that NIST is a significant and representative mudfish
institution at the heart of the mudfish scientific enterprise. Deep evolutionary instincts at work, and out in the open to be watched too.

Nobody really knows why humans make lists of fundamental physical constants or do science at all, do they? Or magpies collect bright objects.

HERE IS ONE WAY INTO THE CAVE:
*******************************

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants/index.html

This "Fundamental Physical Constants"
page will give you a chance to select
the category "Universal Constants", as well
as others. Selecting "Universal Constants"
will get you to the page mentioned next.

HERE IS A SECOND MORE DIRECT WAY:
*******************************

http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Category?view=html&Universal.x=54&Universal.y=7

NIST calls this page "Fundamental Physical Constants---
constants in the category 'Universal Constants' "

THE DJINN TOLD ALADDIN TO GO DOWN INTO THE CAVE
AND TO EXAMINE A LAMP CALLED "planck length" AND
THAT RUBBING THIS LAMP BY THE NUMBER 10^38 WOULD
CAUSE IT TO BECOME A MILE

Thank you very much Leonard.

Andrew, I appreciate your kindness
in not telling me to get lost after that
last post. I realize it sounds totally
out to lunch, and probably is of no earthly
use to you.
I confess to being intrigued by the so-called
fundamental physical constants. I do not understand
why they are there in nature and I do not understand
what there is in human nature that impelled us to
discover them.

The fact that our mile is E38 times one of them
is just icing on the cake.

You could have responded dismissively but you
didn't, so I have to thank you (rather than the
other way around.)

L

As usual I am typing too quickly and am
scatterbrained.
That reply was to you, Bryan.

No worries- I shall henchforth be known as "Bryan Andrew-Parry" just for you.

Also, I am not entirely certain, but you stated that one 10,000th of this mile was the width of your palm with thumb outstrectched- this cubed being close to our gallon. Well, I find it remarkable but I must say that the Romans really had it made.. in every way. I was looking at the Roman volume measures, and one of their "gallons" was 6 units that were almost identical to our pint, with the gallon equalling (coincidentally or incidentally) one 10,000th of a mile cubed. Remarkable.

In any case, my palm with thumb outsretched is 6½ inches, which when cubed, equals almost exactly one Imperial gallon.

I look at Rome, from the tiniest and smallest levels up to the very grandest, and I continue to be awed by their greatness. Truly, have there ever been any people greater in history? My admiration for Rome goes all the way down to their measuring system- it is the perfect (almost) decimal system in my opinion. I am genuinely moved by it.

It is easy to think of things that give one a
high opinion of the romans. I agree with you.

My theory is that they did two things that
made it easier to keep their empire together without
having to fight too much:

1. they were pretty open about giving out roman
citizenship

2. they made it easy to get a hot bath

I think the European members of the roman empire
could have rebelled at any time and beaten the
roman army whenever. but they didn't want to because
they could get hot baths and had full legal rights
as citizens if they wanted and so why bother.

doubtless they did a lot of stuff that was cruel and
bad but they were remarkably enlightened too. so
bravo to them. Also you are right about their measuring system being (for a decimal system) very
sensible. As decimal systems go maybe it is as you
suggest tops, in any case it is really good and
handy-sized and sort of "ergonomic".

I understand they made great catapults and aqueducts too.

I saw in a magazine where a guy in UK reconstructed an old Roman "ballista" catapult and threw an upright
piano some long distance. Must have made a wonderful
crash when it landed.

Today is a good day.

People who think they can eradicate the Roman mile
are deluded.

I like your theory Leonard.

Now, this is not really related to weights and measures, but I would like to say that often when Romans did "cruel" things, those things were often quite functional. The gladiatoral contests were good for entertaining and keeping the people in line without interfering too much with them directly. Another example is the paternal family based system, which also had many advantages to it perhaps too long to list. Suffice it to say, the Romans were an incredibly practical and level headed people in my view who are worthy of our respect.

I often talk of the fact that the mile and gallon "have legs", as you say, and how our system owes a lot to them and to nature. Of course, people will say to me, "Yes, yes, but the Roman system was decimal as is metric- our system has drifted blah". Well, to that I say that the Roman system was indeed decimal, but was a very elegant combination of practical binary numbers and other numbers such as 12, but did this, more or less, within a decimal frame:

1000 double paces in a mile, but each double pace being made up of 5 feet/60 inches. Within this there were many units adjusted to verying tasks, but still set within the decimal framework.

A wonderful system indeed. But yes, I still prefer our three-foot rule.

They didn't have soap though.

I got a good laugh from this observation
about the soapless romans, but it also made me
wonder who invented soap and when
that improvement to the bath appeared.

Greeks apparently used olive oil and a scraper
called a "strigel"? Or was the strigel Roman?

soap I suppose is any combination of an oil
with a strong base such as potassium or sodium
hydroxide or carbonate. these occur in ashes.
could there have been
an early practice of scrubbing using ashes
and water that brought the alkaline element in?

They did, as Bryan pointed out just now, have a nice
balance of 10-base and 12 in their units. On the large end, mile was a thousand paces and on the small end,
their foot was divided into 12 inches and their
pound into 12 ounces.

We all know this. Bryan is tactful and does not belabor the point and say the obvious. I tend to say
the obvious in case somebody else who doesn't know
is listening.

I'm undecided for the moment as to what to do. Either of you could suggest something (suggestions help even if one doesn't always take them).

I'm interested in and could make up problems or stories involving either of two systems.

One system is decimal pound-inch as defined e.g. at Paul's website.

The other system is the "millionth, billion, E-33"
system where the trice-like time unit is 1/18.55
second, the fingerwidth distance unit is just over 5/8 inch
(ten of which make 6 and 3/8 inch)

In this system a mile is 100 thousand of the fingerwidth units and a gallon is a cubic "palm with thumb extended" thing.

there is no fixed name for the system or for the units in it, only provisional names for some things

I refer to it as millionth-billion-E-33 because it
is defined by stipulating that newton's G is a millionth and c is a billion and h-bar is E-33.

Those three things determine the sizes of the basic
units and for example make it so the length unit has
to be a (little) fingerwidth of about 5/8" and the
force unit has to be right around 27 pounds.

It is fun to use for physics because so much is round numbers. But the downside is that the units are unfamiliar. People rarely listen when I talk about it.
Paul has understood the system and warns against its
idiosyncratic aspect.
I think what draws me to it is the fact that the
example of a system in which the basic natural constants are powers of ten is an implied criticism
of SI and calls attention to SI's antiquated side.
It might help to bog down SI's advance by corroborating the claim "SI is an inferior system
which happens by historical accident to have majority status."

You see how I am thinking: even if the G-c-h-bar system is never adopted to use for any purpose it can
still help clarify the view of SI as inferior and unmodern and thus, indirectly, help protect the
traditional units like pound, inch etc.

So I would like for one thing to get some good names for the G-c-hbar units: the fingerwidth, the 27 pound force, the cubic fingerwidth (1000 of which make gallon), the 1/18.55 second time unit (which cannot be called trice because trice is already used by pound-inch) and so on. And also a name for the system as a whole.

On the other hand maybe I should be making up pound-inch problems and emailing them to Paul for his webpage. Pound-inch system has a lot of potential I think. Any reactions?

If you would allow me to be a little grovelling here, I would suggest the following as names for your units:

The system should be called the "Cottrelli" something or other system. Maybe the "Cottrellian Decimal System". The 27-ish pound unit could be called either the tod or the Leonard (or Leon or Cottrell). The 1/18.55 second time unit can be the "Trell" (from your name, and it looks a little like Trice/tri/trio and so on). As for a name for the finger width unit and the cubic finger width unit, how about (if you wish to avoid micro/milli style prefixes (you may not wish that, of course)) the digin and digus (from digit).

you poke excruciating fun
but also just by experimenting and trying
names on your own, you help

metric has too many human names associated with
units already (newton for force, pascal for pressure)
I would like to stay away from human names
otherwise I would call the 6 3/8 inch (palm
with extended thumb) the "bryan".
then 10 fingerwidths make a bryan and
10 bryans make a roman (2-step) pace and
10 thousand bryans make a mile.

and a cubic bryan is (pretty much the same as) a gallon.

Satirical or not some kind of reaction helps.

It is really hard to find names for units.

Paul did a pretty good job with pound-inch names.

Have you been to his webpage?

The Romans had a fingerwidth unit called "digitus".

Three syllables, though, sounds stuffy and pedantic
like "centimeter" to me, and not as nice as "inch".

Maybe I should do violence to the idea of inch and
even though the digitus is only 1.6 cm I should call it an inch? New inch? Too confusing? but nice name.

The fing(er). One cubed fing equals a gallon. 10 fingies equals a fung (fun, fumb, fund are other variants. Too much...?

Ahhh! Sorry, I got muddled up there. It should be:

10 fingies make a fung. A fung cubed equals a gallon.

Glad I cleared that up, otherwise my post would have been rendered completely unintelligable.

If anyone gets a unit namesake it
should be Brian Kibble out at NPL Teddington
because he invented how to measure forces
using atomic clock frequency standard.

The force (applied at a measured speed to make
a power) is turned, by Kibble's device, into
a square frequency.

You have pushed me to consider people's names
and you really deserve to have the hand-sized
roughly six inch span called a bryan. However it
might not be a bad idea after all if the force
unit (that 27 pounds) was called a kibble.

the other people who have contributed a lot to
recent metrology (Brian Josephson, von Klitzing) have
fundamental constants named after them. constants
transcend any system of units. forget them. they have
enough glory.

That was a typo
I didnt mean cubit
I meant cubic.
Fingie and fung is a terrible idea.
Now that handspan will simply have to
be a bryan. You have done it.

LENGTH: base unit = bone
(thinking of knucklebone of little finger, 1.6 cm)

Ten bone = one bryan
Ten bryan = (two-step) pace
Thousand paces = mile

TIME: base unit = snicker
(1/18.55 second)

18.55 snickers make a second and the rest you know
60 seconds make a minute....etc.

SPEED: bone per snicker
standard speed of light is one billion bo/sn

earth orbit speed around sun is one mile/snicker

common highway speed of 67 mph is 100 bo/sn

FORCE: base unit = kibble
(about 27 pounds of force or 121 newtons)

ENERGY: kibblebone
(exerted by giving a kibble push for bone distance)

POWER: kibblebone/snicker
(rate of delivery of energy, unit energy in unit time)

[kibblebone is about 2 metric joules of energy and
kibblebone/snicker is about 36 metric watts of power]

BRYAN!!! you are asleep. I am visualizing you waking up around 3AM in the morning your time and going to
your computer. I am visualizing you turning on your
computer. I am visualizing you approving of these unit names.

PLANCK'S CONSTANT: Planck's h-bar is
10^-33 kibblebone snicker.
This is actually coming out rather nice.

You indeed have 20/20 vision.

an early riser!
what is for breakfast?
one reason for preferring bacon is the way it sounds
(well by now you will probably be
off to work and not answering)

Paul:

>This is precisely what we have fought numerous wars
>over the centuries to avoid - against the Spanish,
>the French and the Germans - our traditional enemies.

"Our traditional enemies"...
That is what a lot of the discussion (at least from your side) seems to be about...

Leonard:
Is it legal ? If so, what's the name of it?

Ralf

intelligence perhaps
creativity maybe
attempt to see with fewer preconceptions
?

whatever, it is still legal I think

SteveH over at roadsigns forum:
Barking & South Circular July 3 2002, 10:23 AM


[[Ralf, excuse me for asking but if I were to go to a German website with a chat forum and posted items in German telling them that they were all wrong to keep something special and uniquely German I would feel somewhat odd. In fact I would be pretty disgusted with myself, inviting myself into a German "house" and ridiculing them for doing something German. ]]

IT IS NOT A FREE SPEECH ISSUE so much as a manners one.

Paul at beginning of this thread:
[[...the French are no longer the fanatics of the French Revolution, the Germans no longer the thugs of WWI & WWII. If so, then why won't they leave us alone?

Even in this forum, all the continental european posters, without any exception that I can recall, support the tyrannies of the EU and want their allegedly rational systems imposed upon each of us by force. Not one is willing to leave it to our individual personal choice - nor even to the wishes of the majority of British people. So - have they changed? Or are they still the statist bullies and oppressors we know from history?]]

Ralf I your behavior is an important source of the problem. I have no reason to suppose that either
SteveH nor Paul is the slightest bit anti-continental by temperament. Your being here and mocking specifically
British culture and preferences and being sort of
domineering and insensitive about it actually provokes
the bristling you complain about.

Regretably I can't find anything biased or unobjective in Paul's
post because you PROVE for him what he warns of.
One would like to suppose that one's neighbors are
not inclined to act and speak in an oppressive way and in every union would like to hope for the best. But your behavior
is a lesson to everybody--making such hopes difficult and confirming the worst apprehensions.

Why don't you become a pound-inch supporter. It is not the official system of any political block.
then you could argue all you want
(for a politically neutral cause) without breeding
vexation.

Yes, posters from the continent (ie "Europe") to this site tend to mock our system. HOWEVER I have many continental friends (let me think now...) 3 German, 2 Dutch, 1 Italian, too many French to talk about, one swiss and a spaniard (probably more, but it *IS* Monday morning!).
These people quickly adapted to the imperial system over here and in fact think it's "charming". They hear of the news about the so called "metric martyrs" and think it's shocking! In fact the general point of view is "**** them!" and do what the rest of Europe would do - ignore the rules! (They cannot believe how strictly we put EU rules into force).

As I said many times, I'm pro-European and anti-EU. I actually find it difficult to comprehend that someone can love the EU and love Europe at the same time, the two cannot be further away on the compass!

I quite like those names. But since the scheme's based upon the natural units, you need a neat and simple conversion between them. Having to say "times ten to the thirty three" or even "times one E thirty three" is too clumsy.

Perhaps say h-cross = 1 GY kibblebone snicker
(pronounced Giga-Yotta in full or Guy for short).

And, Planck length = 1 ny bone
("nano-yocto" in full or "nigh" for short)

Then Planck time = 1 ay snicker
("atto-yocto" or "eh?")

Planck force = 1 EY kibble
("Exa-Yotta" or "Eye")

Planck energy = 1EYny kibblebone = 1En Kb = 1 G Kb = 1GKb

Speed of light is easy (1 "Gigabosun")

You don't seem to have named the unit of mass yet, which I presume will be 21.77 grams = 1 Mega Planck mass. What about the "nonce" (nearly an ounce)?

Planck temperature = (c/(G*G*h-cross*sigma))**1/4 = 2.2249E32 Kelvin
So a unit down by 1E-33 (1 ny Planck temp) would seem about right, putting freezing point at 1227.7

it is abundantly clear that working on units
with others like you and Bryan beats
working alone
a bosun is a good measure of speediness
(I was just abbreviating bo/sn)
and in familiar terms a bosun is 0.67 mph
so that 100 bosun is the 67 mph that is
fairly common on highway around here
(just slightly over the posted 65 mph limit)

Where passenger jets mostly fly
above cloud layer
temperature is cold and fairly
constant I am told and sound
commonly travels around 1000 bosun.

Does it really come out this nicely or
am I making some careless error?

I like nonce very much
you are a world-class units namer

21.7 or 21.8 g IS "nearly an ounce"
and it has the combination of seriousness
and flippancy that keeps metric people
a little off balance and mildly irritated
which is good for their character development
or so I fancy. Yes.
I shall sip some fluid nonces of stout at my
friends house this afternoon.

the base unit of mass might be nonce or it
might be a thousand nonces, either way nonce is good.