Leonard,

Regarding your statement of October 14th.

"I tried out a proposed volume ounce of 1.750 cu.in. and it could be said to be an improvement in the U.S. case, because it makes one beverage pint closer to one avdp.lb. of distilled water at maximum density, or 39.2 F. deg."

You cannot "improve" a perfect system.

That is precisely what the Great "Reform" Act 1832 United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland tried to do in 1835 with its' "IMProved" system, and it failed. They confused the Britannic Islanders so much that they ended up thinking it was His "IMPerial" & Royal Majesty Napoleon Emperor's Republic of Europe & King's Republic of Italy Decadent Weights & Measures scheme.

So folks started calling it the "IMPerial European scheme" instead of the "IMProved Britannic system". This was reinforced by the state regime's public selling point of:

1 imp.gal. = 10 imp.pt. = 10 avdp.lb. distilled water @ max.dens.

The world's only perfect system, or
babylon system, or
assyria system, or
egypt system, or
phoenicia system, or
england system, or
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA system,
is below:

1/1000 second of Earth's Equator = 1.216 x 1 inch = 1.216 inch
1 fluid ounce (1.800 cu.in.) =/> 1.216 x 1.216 x 1.216 in. = 1.798045696 cu.in.
1 fl.oz. = 1.800 cu.in. = 1 avdp.oz. wine = 437 1/2 gr.
1 fl.oz. = 1.800 cu.in. = 1000/960 avdp.oz. distilled water @ max.dens. 39.2 F.
1.728 cu.in. = 1 avdp.oz. distilled water @ max.dens. = 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.2 in.
1 cu.ft. = 960 avdp.oz. wine = 1728 cu.in. = 12 x 12 x 12 in.
1 cu.ft. = 1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1728 cu.in. = 12 x 12 x 12 in.
1 cu.ft. = 60 avdp.lb. wine
1 cu.ft. = 1000/16 avdp.lb. distilled water @ max.dens. 39.2 F.
1 cu.ft. = 60 fl.pt.
1 cu.ft. = 30 fl.qt.
1 cu.ft. = 15 fl.pot.
1 cu.ft. = 7 1/2 fl.gal.
960 fl.oz. = 1 cu.ft.
960 fl.oz. = 960f. = 240d. = 20s. = £1
960 fl.oz. = 4f. x 12d. x 20s. =£1
960 avdp.oz. wine = 1 cu.ft.
960 avdp.oz. wine = 960f. = 240d. = 20s. = £1
960 avdp.oz. wine = 4f. x 12d. x 20s. = £1
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1 cu.ft.
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1000 ones = 100 tens = 10 hundreds = 1000
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = (10 x 10/10) x (10 x 10/10) x (10 x 10/10) = 1000
1/1000" arc Eq. =/< one side of one fl.oz. cube of common fluid measure (1.216 in.)
1" arc of Earth's Equator = 1.216 in. x (10 x 10 x 10)

You cannot "improve" what is perfect.

For your information, I list the "IMProved" system below:

3/3040 second of Earth's Equator = 1.2 x 1 inch = 1.2 inch
1 explicit ounce (1.728 cu.in.) = 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.2 in. = 1.728 cu.in. (Yr.1835)
1 et.oz. = 1.728 cu.in. = 1 avdp.oz. distilled water = 437 1/2 gr.
1 et.oz. = 1.728 cu.in. = 1 avdp.oz. distilled water @ max.dens. 39.2 F. deg.
1.728 cu.in. = 1 avdp.oz. distilled water @ max.dens. = 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.2 in.
1 cu.ft. = 1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1728 cu.in. = 12 x 12 x 12 in.
1 cu.ft. = 1000/16 avdp.lb. distilled water @ max.dens. 39.2 F. deg.
1 cu.ft. = 50 imp.pt. (Yr.1835)
1 cu.ft. = 25 imp.qt. (Yr.1835)
1 cu.ft. = 12 1/2 imp.pot. (Yr.1835)
1 cu.ft. = 6 1/4 imp.gal. (Yr.1835)
1000 et.oz. = 1 cu.ft.
1000 et.oz. = 1000m. = 100c. = 10d. = United Kingdom $1
1000 et.oz. = 10m. x 10c. x 10d. = United Kingdom $1
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1 cu.ft.
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = 1000 ones = 100 tens = 10 hundreds = 1000
1000 avdp.oz. distilled water = (10 x 10/10) x (10 x 10/10) x (10 x 10/10) = 1000
3/3040" arc Eq. = one side of one et.oz. cube of british explicit measure = 1.2 in.
1" arc of Earth's Equator = 1.2 in. x (10.044237 x 10.044237 x 10.044237)

After the United Kingdom created their "IMProved" system, they went over it again, and made it an "IMProved & IMProved" system by increasing the temperature of measurement from 39.2 F. deg. (maximum density), to 62 F. deg. This immediately ballooned all their measurements out of proportion. Of course weight remains weight, so the 1 avdp.oz. distilled water remained the same.

Not satisfied with confusing Britannic Islanders, the state regime then tried to drive them nuts by starting to refer to the explicit ounce of 1.728/1.733 cu.in. as an "IMProved ounce", and then later as an "IMProved fluid ounce", despite none of them being 1.800 cu.in.

It's a wonder that the state regime did not attempt to force upon folks the crackpot Napoleon Emperor's Republic of Europe Decadent Weights & Measures scheme. I assume they didn't dare because every country in the world had abandoned it by 1835, so they came out with their half-hearted "IMProved & IMProved" system.

Of course there have been a number of men in the past who have full-heartedly tried to "improve" the perfect system, and no doubt there will be one or two in the future. Almost invariably the scam they try to push is the N.E.R.E. Decadent Weight & Measures scheme. But then again a trait of traitors, felons, & misdemeanants is a lack of imagination. I list some of the failures below:

Napoleon Bonaparte
Wilhelm Hohenzollern
Benito Mussolini
Josef Stalin
Adolf Hitler
Joseph Tiso
Ante Pavelic
Vidkun Quisling
Henri Petain
Mao Tsetung
Pol Pot

If you require further information, see site:

http://www.weights-and-measures.com

And topics:

Common Weights & Measures Formula
Common Fluid Measure & Common Dry Measure
British Explicit Measure & British Improved Measure

Fascinating stuff, but I wonder where the cubit and the megalithic yard come into all this?

I would argue that the cubit is the world's oldest measurement as it was used during the 120 years it took Noah to build the ark [Genesis 6 & 7], i.e. the only known measurement before the flood.

After the flood came the building of what we now call 'Old Stone Age' forts, ziggurats etc. As documented in Vivian Linacre's book on Customary Measures, many of these ancient earthworks - and including the pyramids - were apparently built, all over the world, in units of a megalithic yard. This was remarkably close to one half of a Roman 'pace' and also appears to have been almost exactly one royal cubit (20") plus a foot (12").

Question: Do the cubit and the so-called 'megalithic yard' relate in any way to the 'perfect' system you describe?

[The work on the megalithic yard has been contributed to by Alexander Thom, Anne Macaulay, B L Van der Waerden and John Michell - see 'A Guide to Customary Weights and Measures', by Vivian Linacre [ISBN 1-872970-34-6], pp. 42-48

cole, you have actually just managed to insult me with this crapful post.

1. Your comparisons somehow to those dictators is disgusting.

2. Your idea of American superiority is sickening to me.

3. The fact that you are still only semi-coherent is frustrating to me.

and finally

4. Imho, a 1.75 cubic inch fluid ounce is a massive improvement.... and, I find it ridiculous that you say the system is perfect. I doubt it very much so. Nothing is 'erfect'. Maybe that's just in the eye of the beholder, though.

One point, specifically, where you are wrong (though there are a few) that I would like to pick out, is where you say that there are ten pints to the gallon. You must mean ten American pints weighing a pound to the UK gallon, because there are in fact ***8*** pints to the gallon, each pint just so happens to weigh 1¼lbs (making a gallon of 10)

Xcole does it again! Just what sort of a person is Xcole? What makes him tick? Answers on a postcard please.....

He appears to be in stuck in some kind of timewarp, doing the mid 19C over and over and over again.

This thread has given me cause to reboot my brain.

(By the way, Bryan, xcole is British)

How do you know, Rotclar? His spellings?

everything I've seen of x
is consistent with
US citizenship, New England residence,
AngloSaxon heritage. I've seen
no real clues, though haven't really
looked. I just haven't seen anything as yet
that would contradict those
provisional assumptions.

though I don't know, I tend to be
skeptical of Rotclar's surmise that
he is a UK citizen.

Rotclar must be having one of his 'funny' jokes again...

I still think a common 1.75 floz is an excellent idea.

I looked up the DNS registration of "weights-and-measures.com".

The owner the domain is a Rory Ely Cole, of Fox Lane, Palmers Green, London, England.

This definition is logically inconsistent. Since the density of water is a function of temperature you should state that the either that the measurement is made at a specific temperature or that the measurement is made using water at its maximum density.

Other points to consider are:

1. What is distilled water - in particular which isotopes of oxygen and hydrogen are found in the "distilled water" that you plan to use.

2. At what atmospheric pressure are you making thjis measurement. Water is compressible, so the presure must be specified. If it is done in a vacuum, then all the water will evaporate.

Finally, why don't you leave this work to the experts instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

ROTCLAR: [I looked up the DNS registration of "weights-and-measures.com".

The owner the domain is a Rory Ely Cole, of Fox Lane, Palmers Green, London, England.]

Well done! I surmise that DNS means something like
"Domain Name S...." Please let us know how to do this.
What website does one visit to look up DNS?
I, for one, am surprised that Cole turned out to be
British---there is a kind of humorless innocence about him that seems so American. Is this a familiar type of British grand-eccentric? did others recognize x as British? I took him for Yankee.

Gosh, I don't know. I took him for an extraterrestrial with a snake in his head!

None of the extraterrestrials I know can match
humans in the Eccentricity in the Grand Manner
category. Indeed the Victorian Era may have seen
the height of it.
However your SNAKE IN HEAD image is a fine one and reminds me
of the extraterrestrials in the first
MEN IN BLACK
who sometimes were discovered to have little creatures inside their
heads

is Rory doing any harm to BWMA site? I defer to your judgment. besides taking up space.
******************************************

there is a great UK site about water:

http://www.sbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html#5

it is maintained by Martin Chaplin of
South Banks U

It explains for example why ordinary water
has a density max at around 39F or 4C.
At least it says some words about that.
And the site is beautifully constructed with
hyperlinks clarifying terminology

Snake in head was a half-hearted reference to the Goa'ould of Stargate SG1.

DNS stands for "Domain Name Service". This is the database that maintains links between domain names and the IP addresses they represent.

The central DNS registry for .com, .net, and .org domains is maintained by Network Solutions, and you can look up domain registrations by doing a whois query at whois.networksolutions.com. I'm not sure if you can access it though the web, though. I use a whois client.

BTW, I thought the Goa'uld attached to the spine of the host. Or am I confusing them with the Trill from Star Trek?

Yes, but they go up along the spine and penetrate the brain - that's how they get control. And they get referred to as snakeheads quite a bit. (Your spelling - Goa'uld - looks more plausible than mine, by the way).

You watch Stargate too, Paul!? Jeppers! We appear to have *too* much in common, if you ask me. I see that they use English measures in that, too (mostly)

talking of grisly snake-things that bore from within did anybody ever see Ridley Scott's 1979 film "Alien" with Sigourney Weaver? Ridley Scott directed the unforgetable "Blade Runner" which came out three years later in 1982.

Rotclar thanks, sometime I will try networksolutions.com to see if I can look up a DNS.

the trouble with xcole's systems is lack of grandeur.
basing distance measure on things like a degree of latitude or one quadrant of a great circle is too
limited.
purely earthbound stuff gets boring after a while.
I wish he could adopt an off-planet perspective
now and then.

The thing is, all the systems WERE based on those things, so xcole rejects elswhat as not correct. I still favour this 1.75cuin floz. sorry :-D

ps. Yes, I have seen Alien. It's a very good film, though not as good as the second, if you ask me.