'London Voice' is a politically correct newspaper which circulates in London. Edited by Harbhajan Singh, and in its April/May edition wishing its readers 'Happy Easter, Vaisakhsi and Ram Nomi', it includes a major article on Ken Livingstone's launch of a fund to erect a statue to Nelson Mandela in Trafalagar Square and has a major piece on combating discrimination.

When it comes to weights and measures, however, it knows what its readers prefer.

The 'Recipe Corner' has a recipe for a 20-minute 'Prawns, Pesto and Pasta', which includes under 'What You Need':

"8oz. pasta (2oz. per person) and 8oz.-10oz. frozen prawns (or fresh if you're feeling extravagent!)".

There's not even a metric equivalent in sight.

On the very next page is an article promoting portable bikes headed: "Be miles ahead with Bike-in-a-Bag"

Almost all recipes that I see in newspapers use metric measures. If Imperial measures were that common in recipes, it would not be neccessary to single this one out.

I think is was to realise that that specific community use imperial as preference, just like "the rest of us".

BTW: I *did* find a recipe that used metric measures the other day so to a certain degree (about 50%) you are 100% correct, if you get my drift.

We have bought packaged food in grams for years so it makes sense to put the measure in grams on recipes. Using Tony's example, 8oz of pasta is negligable when looking in the shops for pasta as you would need to convert it to grams (227g).

I've bought packaged goods in packages. ie "box of", "carton of" etc.

For recipes I would measure out at home since buying, for example, the exact amount of cheese from a shop to do one recipe would be silly.

I've never bought packed stuff by the pound or gramme.

The loose stuff behind the counter? That's a different story.

If the recipe says to get 200 grams of something then I think most people would want to look for a packet which contained that amount, ie 200, 250 or 300 grams depending on what was available.

If the recipe required "eight ounces" then one would have to convert that to 227 grams before realising that the correct choice would be 250.

Recipes in the US are all by volume, but if they call for a standard weight container, it will read something like "one 8-ounce box of pasta"

Let me give you an example of a "standard" looking US recipie (all volumes are US, note that chocolate comes in standard 1 oz. squares):

Pennsylvania German Brownies

4 tablespoons margarine or butter (1/2 stick)
1 square (1 ounce) unsweetened chocolate
1/4 cup light molasses
2 large eggs
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon ground ginger
1/2 teaspoon ground cloves
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup plus 2 teaspoons sugar
1 1/8 teaspoons ground cinnamon

1. Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Grease 13" by 9" metal baking pan; set aside.
2. In 4-quart saucepan, melt margarine or butter with chocolate over low heat. Remove saucepan from heat. With wire whisk or fork, stir in molasses, then eggs.
3. With spoon, stir in flour, ginger, cloves, baking soda, salt, 1 cup sugar, and 1 teaspoon cinnamon just until blended. Spread batter evenly in pan. Bake 15 to 20 minutes until toothpick inserted 2 inches from edge comes out clean. Meanwhile, in cup, combine remaining 2 teaspoons sugar and 1/8 teaspoon cinnamon; set aside.
4. Remove pan from oven; immediately sprinkle brownies with cinnamon-sugar mixture. Cool brownies in pan on wire rack at least 2 hours. When cool, cut brownies lengthwise into 3 strips, then cut each strip crosswise into 5 pieces. Cut each piece diagonally in half.

One thing that UK cookery books couldn't possibly have only in imperial is the temperature of the oven. It is a fact that all ovens are now in degrees Celcius. I never know why they even bother writing the Faranheit equivalent these days.

MattS wrote

<<
4 tablespoons margarine or butter (1/2 stick)
1 square (1 ounce) unsweetened chocolate

... snip ...

Preheat oven to 375 degrees
>>

This recipe would fall flat in the UK. I think that I have said this before - the concept of a "stick of butter" is totally unknown in the UK. At least, the most anti-metric cook in the UK would know what you were talking about if you said 100g butter. Similarly, chocolate squares in thw UK are about 1cm by 1cm and certainly weight a lot less than an ounce.

Likewise, I havn't seen an oven with Farenheit for years, so heating to 375 degrees would mean degrees Centigrade in the UK which would totally ruin any cooking.

By using "sticks of butter" and "squares of chocolate", you are tying the recipe into an American retail culture making it incomprensible to the average European. Also, if you wrote 375F rather than 375 degrees you would have removed anotehr degree of uncertainty.

I could write about US fluid ounces vs UK fluid oz etc, but I won't.

<<
the concept of a "stick of butter" is totally unknown in the UK
>>

so then how do you buy butter?

Butter is usually bought in 250g or 500g packs. Before metrication is was bought in 8oz or 1 lb packs. The pack consists of a single wrapped slab of butter. The printing on the pack often has lines to help you slice off 50g, 100g, 150g, 200g etc.

Last niught I checked a few publication around the house that we had received over the past few days and that had recipes in them: - The Times (Saturday), The Sunday Times, the local weekly newspaper, my wife's Good Housekeeping and her Supermarket magazine (Sainburys?, Waitrose?). All the recipes used metric units, butone did give Imperial equivalents.

Tony's discovery of an all-Imperial recipe was therefore certainly a newsworthy item - it hardly happens.

"It is a fact that all ovens are now in degrees Celcius. I never know why they even bother writing the Faranheit equivalent these days"

Are you for real?

Although my oven is in centigrade I can tell you that I have NEVER seen an item from the shop that does not include the "F" temperature!

Don't take my word for it - go to your freezer now (if you're at home) and randomly pick up a pizza, fishcake, whatever and have a look.

Then be honest with yourself and with us.

I think you mis-read my post Steve. I said that as all ovens are in celcius these days, I can't see why firms still bother to put the Faranheit equivalent on packaging/recipes etc.

Because all ovens in the US are only in degrees Fahrenheit and if those products are either packaged in the US or exported to the US, they would be useless to the American consumer.

It is probably a "play safe" to cover the few very old ovens in the UK that are still in Farenheit.

BTW, "Dr Oetinger's" (?) pizzas (made in Germnay, instructions in 9 different languges) only quote F for the English instructions.

It's doctor öetker :)

I suspect there are more "F" cookers than you'd think out there. I've not seen one but there are many aga's etc that are part of cottages etc.

BTW: To the "pro-metric" people here: Do posts like that one by "someguy" on the "Questions to BWMA" forum embarrass you at all? They come and go every now and again and claim things that we know aren't true and have agreed on, so does his sort embarrass you or do you just see him as a useless renigade of sorts? I get great pleasure in "his sort" and I'm not sure he realises how he furthers the pro-imperial/pro-choice types. I only ask because I'd know that I'd be embarrased if I were on a pro-metric site and someone came along and posted "Metric is rubbish, no one in the UK uses it" and then fled.
Just thought I'd ask....

(ooerr! just had a thought! perhaps he's from some "pro-imperial extremists group" (do they exist?) and posting like an idiot in a sort of "reverse-campaigning" way!?!?!?! - surely not! He doesn't sound like he's got a - ahem - milligramme of cleverness in him!)

"Someguy's" post was a bit too exagerated. Even I agree that in 2 years time, the UK will not be 100% metric! I think we all agree on that one. All I can presume is that he has not read all the other posts in these forums and he has just posted and extreme, idealistic view of a pro metric person.

Idealistic?

"Nightmare" is what I'd call it ;)

Can't say I'm embarassed by one persons comments on an internet forum!

After all, its the pro-imperials who are the extremists, vandalising road signs etc. The rest of us just accept the inevitable progression towards the metric system.

Someguys comments were over the top obviously, but the fact is that eventually imperial weights and measures will be completely replaced by metric. My reasons for being pro-metric are simply that the change is inevitable, so why not get it over and done with quickly without all this confusion.

Can't say I'm embarassed by one persons comments on an internet forum!

After all, its the pro-imperials who are the extremists, vandalising road signs etc. The rest of us just accept the inevitable progression towards the metric system.

Someguys comments were over the top obviously, but the fact is that eventually imperial weights and measures will be completely replaced by metric. My reasons for being pro-metric are simply that the change is inevitable, so why not get it over and done with quickly without all this confusion.

"but the fact is that eventually imperial weights and measures will be completely replaced by metric"

How many generations are you willing to wait?

I hope you can be happy realising it won't be this one - after all it's been about two generation of coersion and state action but the people stubbonly stick to what we like best.

With opinions showing an *increase* in preference for imperial over the last 'decade and a bit' I'd personally be a bit worried if I were a "non-choice pro-metric" type.

Of course if you're pro-choice and pro-metric then you'd have no problems in people enjoying the imperial system because, quite simply, it's up to them.

In contrast to SomeGuy's comments, did anybody see the LittleJohn show on Sky last week?

I thought the Ros Denny (the UKMA rep on the show) put up some very good points, notably that the fault for the slow take-up of the metric system lies with past Governments because they shirked their responsibility in educating the public.

SteveH,

Please say who you are referring to.

...errr anyone who believes that an individual is somehow "wrong" in choosing to use imperial?

Since my last post here I've seen the Someguy post over on another board, so my question is answered thank you.

The cap you offered may fit more than you realise. I don't think you will find pro-metrics embarrassed by someone disputing the freedom of choice argument on their behalf.

ok i get your drift now - you were referring to the "someguy" loony. I thought you may have inferred I was talking about you!

P.S. I'd be VERY embarrassed if he was an ambassador for my cause!

(p.s. no-one mention "xcole"!)

Which side is xcole on anyway? Can't make much sense of his posts..

Andy,

XCOLE is a weirdo who is trying to promote his own website based on a booklet that his ancestor produced in 1828 or thereabouts.

We usually ignore him.