Stephen,

Regarding your statement of December 16th @ 1:52 p.m.

''It depends on the sport. In rugby it's mainly the Erse Free State Flag & the Ulstan State Flag. But with soccer it's always the Ulstan State Flag and ''God Save The Queen''. The Ulstan State Flag is unofficial, being the English State Flag with the red hand of King William XVIII in the middle. The Erse Free State Flag is a tricolor with the green bar representing the papists in Eire.''

Londonderry Air = God Save The Queen ???
Ulster State Flag = ''unofficial'' ???
United Kingdom Mint = ''unofficial'' ???
U.K.£2 coin = ''unofficial'' ???
2002 Commonwealth Games = ''unofficial'' ???
Clan O'Neill red hand = the King William III & Queen Mary II duarchy ???

Stephen, you're gonna have to explain the above, 'cause I can't figure it out.

Or did you mean the red cap of liberty equals King William III & Queen Mary II (Prince of Orange-Nassau & Princess of Orange-Nassau)? If so, you got mixed up, because you stated correctly that it's a red hand in the middle of the Ulster State Flag.

The Eire Free State Flag is now a tricolor of green, white, & orange. After the failed falange insurrection of 1916, that tricolor was adopted by the pro-terrorist Eire Falange, as opposed to the anti-terrorist Eire Nationalisti who continued to fly the green flag with the yellow harp thereon. That green flag with yellow harp is now the official/unofficial??? flag of their imaginary political ''Subsidiarity of Leinster''.

I say ''terrorist'', although the original use of the word meant members of the government that established the 1793 Republic of France, and flew the red, white, and blue tricolor. The word then continued to be used to mean a member of any government that had either an official or unofficial policy of murdering its' own people. But in the 1860s it started to be used for papists in Eire that had taken part in the 1798 insurrection. As of today, the use of the word ''terrorist'' has been completely turned around, and now means anyone that has a stated or unstated policy of murdering the population, EXCEPT if that person is a member of a government.

Stephen, the Eire Nationalisti adopted the green flag with yellow harp from the United Kingdom Roman Catholic Subjects Emancipation League. They adopted the green flag with yellow harp from the United Volunteers organized militia movement of 1779. The United Volunteers were officially all either protestant episcopalian or presbyterian, but some local units did allow a few papists to join illegally.

It was illegal for any papist to hold any elected or appointed public office in the United Kingdom until the creation of the Royal Ulster (Royal Irish Constabulary 1836 / Irish Peace Preservation Police 1816) Constabulary in 1816.

It is not known where the color green came from, as the Ireland State Standard was always a purple flag with a yellow harp thereon, until 1801 when the Ireland State Standard became a blue flag with a yellow harp thereon. Some speculate that it came from the green robes of the Order of The Thistle, as most presbyterians in Ulster insist they are of some vague or mythical scots descent. Others deny this on the grounds that the presbyterian church or official state Reformed Church of Scotland is a republican church, and therefore hostile to all orders of chivalry, especially a phony one cobbled up in 1703.

Interestingly Stephen, one of the things done by the United Kingdom General Government to persuade the United Volunteers to disband, was the cobbling up of the phony Order of St. Patrick in 1783. His Grace The Duke of Leinster, was the leader of the United Volunteers, and the United Kingdom General Government made him the Grand Master of the Order of St. Patrick. The robes of the order were blue. The badge of the order was a white flag with a red saltire thereon, with a large green shamrock in the center, with a yellow royal crown on each of the three shamrock leaves.

The white flag with the red saltire was the flag of the family of the Duke of Leinster, the Fitzgerald family. Eighteen years later in 1801, the flag of the Fitzgerald family was placed into the United Kingdom Jack, in line with the Order of St. Patrick. Also in 1801 the Ireland State Standard was changed from purple with a yellow harp, to blue with a yellow harp, again in line with the Order of St. Patrick.

Others claim that the color green came from a three-leafed shamrock. Of course shamrocks come in a number of colors or mixture of colors, and have been popular with christians for centuries. However one shamrock in the Britanic Islands is all green in color. There is evidence that by the early 1700s folks were wearing all green shamrocks in their hats on March 17th, St. Patrick's Day, one of the saints widely worshipped in Ireland before 1535. Although the worship of saints was banned in 1535, and in Scotland in 1560, the symbols of saints were usually left alone, provided no one worshipped them.

A good example being the various crosses in the United Kingdom Jack, whether flying in the United Kingdom Jack, or flying on their own. Provided no one defies the protestant reformation and claims the crosses have religious significance and can be worshipped, or the saints they represent can be worshipped, the crosses may be flown either in the United Kingdom Jack, or on their own, without fear of law enforcement action.

Accordingly by the early 1700s, the wearing of all green shamrocks in your hat on March 17th would cause you no problems, provided you made no fervent indications of worshipping either shamrocks or St. Patrick.

The white bar in the Eire Free State Flag was placed in the 1916 Eire Falange Flag for unknown reasons. Some say it's for peace, highly improbable as it was the symbol raised to inaugurate treason, and some say it's just to avoid confusion. Whatever the explanation, the white bar replaced the purple bar in the Eire Home Rule Flag tricolor that had been flown off and on at various Eire Home Rule rallies since 1870. I say ''flag'' although almost every Eire Home Rule ''Flag'' tricolor had the bars arranged differently, and had a different color bar on the staffside, so I guess even the folks who flew it did not consider it a proper ''flag''.

Every flag in the world, with the exception of the Eire Free State flag, that has either an orange stripe or orange bar, has it to directly indicate republicanism. Obviously the origin of the orange bar in the Eire Free State flag is the United States of The Netherlands Statholder The Prince of Orange-Nassau, and calvinism and presbyterianism and republicanism, and so forth. But that's not the reason the orange bar is in the Eire Free State flag.

In the Eire Home Rule ''Flag'' tricolor, the orange bar represented protestant episcopalians, the purple stripe represented presbyterians, and the green stripe represented papists.

Stephen, the orange bar in the Eire Free State Flag tricolor is for the protestant episcopalian & presbyterian Loyal Orange Lodges of the Loyal Orange Order, founded in 1795. An orange flag, or banner, or sash, being adopted by many on the Europe Continent & Britanic Islands to show support for the calvinist form of the protestant religion, or republicanism, or The Netherlands Revolt, or the Reformed Church of The Netherlands, or the Statholder Prince of Orange-Nassau, or religious liberty & civil liberty.

Loyal Orange Lodges are called ''lodges'' from both the system of government and the main house of every ''Iroquois Federacy'' or ''Iroquois Confederacy'' or ''Five Nations'' village, that used to stretch from the Mississippi, through the Mid-West, Upper New York State, Eastern New England States, to the Connecticut. They were also the inspiration for government of both the Grand Lodge of Free Masons, and the United States of America. Or so claimed Benjamin Franklin and United States President Thomas Jefferson.

The word ''Iroquois'' means ''People building a Lodge''.

Most of the Iroquois nations are now extinct from white man's diseases, except for the Mohawk Nation, many of whom now live in the City of Brooklyn (now re-named Borough of Brooklyn), and have built most of the world's skyscrapers, and all of the skyscrapers in the City of New York (now re-named Borough of Manhattan).

The first official use of the orange color was in 1701 while King William III (Prince of Orange-Nassau) was still on the throne, when the Kingdom of England & Kingdom of Ireland raised the 35th Belfast Foot (later 35th/107th Royal Sussex Foot) and made the regiment's flag orange, and all their uniform facings orange.

After the Bill of Rights 1688, Queen Mary II reigned until death in 1694, and King William III until death in 1702.

There are a number of Loyal Orange Order flags, but one of the most popular is an orange flag with a large purple five pointed star in the center, referred to as the ''Williamite Star'', why I don't know. However the shield of Statholder Prince William of Orange-Nassau (King William III) was a purple shield with yellow billets scattered all over it, with an upright yellow lion carrying a yellow sword in one paw and seven yellow arrows in the other paw.

It's always an eyepopper to see the Loyal Orange Order's orange republican sash sporting the gold royal crown of Queen Elizabeth II. It doesn't compute. But I suppose it's not as crazy as papists going around calling themselves ''republicans''.

Talking about crazy, the Eire Falange have now adopted the Ulster Unionist Party Flag as their flag for their imaginary political ''Subsidiarity of Ulster''. Some speculate that it was adopted in order to circumvent the Ulster Flags & Emblems Act 1954. Others speculate that the Eire Falange are stupid in addition to being murderous.

Stephen, in 1905 the Ulster Unionist Party adopted a yellow flag with a red cross thereon, with a white norman shield in the middle, with an upright red hand in the center of the shield.

The yellow flag with red cross is the flag of the Burke family, the head of which was made the Earl of Ulster in 1205. It is also the flag of Edmund Burke, United Kingdom House of Commons 1765 – 1794, the ''Father of Conservatism'' and the inspiration for all the world's conservative parties.

The upright red hand is the badge of the O'Neill family, the head of which was made the Earl of Tyrone in 1541. It is also the badge of Prime Minister Terence O'Neill Ulster House of Commons 1963 – 1969.

Although all bishops and all knights are supposed to be non-hereditary, in 1611 Kingdom of England King James I created and sold hereditary knighthoods, called baronets. The mark of all baronets is the O'Neill upright red hand placed in the center of a white norman shield.

Numerous baronets have been created since 1611, but the last one was in 1964, with one sole exception. Sir Dennis Thatcher in 1991. (All knights or non-hereditary knighthoods, and all knight baronets or hereditary knighthoods, are referred to as ''Sir firstname lastname'' and addressed as ''Sir firstname'', and have the same privileges, and all had the same voting rights until 1832, when all their voting rights were abolished.)

On the death of Sir Dennis in 2003, his son, Sir Mark, inherited the hereditary knighthood (knight baronetcy). Sir Mark is presently in a Republic of South Africa, South African Republic jail/prison. Since 1961 the ''Republic of South Africa'' is often called the ''Republic of Transvaal'' in order to differentiate it from the ''South African Republic'' which is the new name of the Union of South Africa. The Free State of Orange, South African Republic, lies to the south of the ''Republic of South Africa'' or ''Republic of Transvaal''. The Free State of Orange is named after the Orange-Nassau family of the United States of The Netherlands.

The South African Republic (Union of South Africa) is made up of two provinces, one republic, and one free state.

The Free State of Cape flag was exactly the same as the United States of The Netherlands flag. Three horizontal stripes, the top orange, the middle white, and the bottom blue. All stripes the same width. The Free State of Cape was annexed by the United Kingdom, renamed as the Province of Cape, and the flag changed to either the United Kingdom Jack, or a completely red flag with the United Kingdom Jack in the upper staffside canton.

The Republic of Natal flag was a rectangle with the base of a isosceles white triangle occupying the full length of the fly with the point of the white triangle ending in the middle of the edge of the staffside. The small upper staffside right triangle was orange, the small lower staffside right triangle was blue. The Republic of Natal was annexed by the United Kingdom, renamed as the Province of Natal, and the flag changed to either the United Kingdom Jack, or a completely red flag with the United Kingdom Jack in the upper staffside canton.

The Republic of South Africa flag (Republic of Transvaal flag) was exactly the same as the Free State of Cape flag (United States of The Netherlands flag), but with the addition of a green bar next to the staffside. That is: on the staffside a green bar, and extending from the green bar to the fly, three horizontal stripes, the top orange, the middle white, and the bottom blue. All stripes and the bar were the same width. The Republic of South Africa (Republic of Transvaal) was annexed by the United Kingdom. It retained its' name, but its' flag was replaced by either the United Kingdom Jack, or a completely red flag with the United Kingdom Jack in the upper staffside canton.

The Free State of Orange flag had as its' upper staffside canton, the Free State of Cape flag (United States of The Netherlands flag). That is, three horizontal stripes, the top orange, the middle white, and the bottom blue. The rest of the flag consisted of four white horizontal stripes, and three orange horizontal stripes. A top white stripe extending from the canton orange stripe, a lower orange stripe extending from the canton white stripe, a lower white stripe extending from the canton blue stripe, a lower full length orange stripe, a lower full length white stripe, a lower full length orange stripe, and a bottom full length white stripe. All stripes in both the flag and canton were all the same width. The Free State of Orange was annexed by the United Kingdom. It retained its' name, but its' flag was replaced by either the United Kingdom Jack, or a completely red flag with the United Kingdom Jack in the upper staffside canton.

In 1927 the Union of South Africa adopted a new flag. It was the Free State of Cape flag (United States of The Netherlands flag). That is, three horizontal stripes, the top orange, the middle white, and the bottom blue. All stripes the same width. In the center of the white stripe were three little flags, the width of each flag 1/3 width of the white stripe itself, whether the little flag was shown with its' fly towards the 1927 flag fly, or its' fly towards the 1927 flag bottomside. The proportions of each little flag was two by three, and the 1927 flag was also two by three.

The 3rd little flag on the white stripe of the 1927 Union of South Africa flag was the Republic of South Africa (Republic of Transvaal) flag with its' fly towards the fly of the 1927 flag. Needless to say, the Republic of South Africa (Republic of Transvaal) flag was shown correctly. That is, topside up.

The 2nd little flag on the white stripe of the 1927 Union of South Africa flag was the Free State of Orange flag hanging down, with its' staffside towards the top of the 1927 flag, and with its' topside towards the staffside of the 1927 flag.

The 1st little flag on the white stripe of the 1927 Union of South Africa flag was the United Kingdom Jack with its' staffside towards the staffside of the 1927 flag. But it was the strangest sight you ever saw, because the United Kingdom Jack was shown UPSIDE DOWN. That is, topside down. The incredible reason given for this by the Union of South Africa government was that they did not want to give the United Kingdom precedence over the Free State of Orange, or the Republic of South Africa (Republic of Transvaal).

In 1924 the Ulster State Government asked the United Kingdom General Government to approve the Ulster Unionist Party Flag as the Ulster State Flag. This was refused and instead the United Kingdom General Government designed and approved a white flag with red cross thereon, with a white six-pointed star in the middle, with an upright red hand in the center of the star, and a yellow royal crown above the star.

The behavior of the United Kingdom General Government annoyed the Ulster State Government and Ulster Unionist Party, and they refused to fly the new Ulster State Flag. But in compliance, they also stopped flying the Ulster Unionist Party Flag, although it continues to this day to be displayed inside party buildings and on party letterhead notepaper. The United Kingdom Jack was flown on most public occasions already, but after 1924 it was flown on all Ulster Unionist Party public occasions exclusively, in addition to being flown on all Ulster State occasions.

Stephen, this changed in 1952 with the death of the United Kingdom King George VI, when the Ulstan public demanded to fly an Ulster State Flag. Accordingly in 1952 the Ulster State Government finally approved the flying of the 1924 Ulster State Flag, which quickly became a popular flag.

This immediately resulted in a demand from the Welsh public for a Wales State Flag to fly, even though a Wales State does not exist.

Accordingly in 1953, the United Kingdom General Government created a Wales State Flag of a white upper stripe & a green lower stripe flag, with a white norman shield of a white upper stripe & green lower stripe in the center of the flag, with a red dragon in the center of the shield. Surrounding the norman shield was a ribbon with words ''The Red Dragon Inspires Action'' in british. On top of the ribbon was a yellow royal crown.

This 1953 Wales State Flag, although very popular, was regarded by many as a mess. Accordingly in 1959 the United Kingdom General Government approved a great simplification. A white upper stripe & green lower stripe flag, with a huge red dragon right in the middle of the flag. The dragon's upperside covering much of the white stripe, and the dragon's lowerside covering much of the green stripe.

In 2002 Stephen, all £2 coins struck by the United Kingdom Mint were of four types:

A £2 coin with the obverse showing a large flying 1924 (1952) Ulster State Flag

A £2 coin with the obverse showing a large flying 1959 Wales ''State'' Flag

A £2 coin with the obverse showing a large flying England State Flag

A £2 coin with the obverse showing a large flying Scotland State Flag

All £2 coins struck in 2002 were to mark the 2002 Commonwealth of Nations Commonwealth Games, Town of Manchester, England State, United Kingdom.

Info @

http://www.weights-and-measures.com

And topic:

Common Time Measure.



''Londonderry Air''
''Danny Boy''
''Oh Danny Boy''

Wow!!!!!

What a post.

Thanks Xcole, we now all have some new opinions on the "Irish Question"

And on Scots & Welsh nationalism....

Please, please visit a 12th July Loyalist march in Scotland or Ireland (note to sane posters - avoid these horrible events at all costs!) and repeat your statement "the Loyal Orange Order's orange republican sash" Try wearing a green t-shirt for extra effect.

USA Today 13/7/05 "Rory's short and uneventful life was ended in a riot in deepest, darkest Ayrshire, Scotland."

BTW, Tony: This is not a real quote. Do you know what I mean?????

XCOLE wrote

<<
Since 1961 the ''Republic of South Africa'' is often called the ''Republic of Transvaal'' in order to differentiate it from the ''South African Republic'' which is the new name of the Union of South Africa. The Free State of Orange, South African Republic, lies to the south of the ''Republic of South Africa'' or ''Republic of Transvaal''. The Free State of Orange is named after the Orange-Nassau family of the United States of The Netherlands.

The South African Republic (Union of South Africa) is made up of two provinces, one republic, and one free state.
>>

I don't knowe where XCOLE found this collection of "facts", but those relating to SOuth Africa are garbled.

For the record, on the eve of the South African War (1899-1902), modern day South Africa consisted of two colonies that had fill responsbsible government (Natal and the Cape Province) and two republics (Orange Free State and the South African Republic). After the South African War the two republics became British Crown colonies. In 1906 and 1907 both were granted full responsible government and in 1910 the four provinces were united into the Union of South Africa. In 1961 South Africa became a republic outside the Commonwealth and became "The Republic of South Africa" (as opposed to "The South African Republic" which was the name of the area that later became the Transvaal Province). In 1995 South Africa was re-admitted to the Commonwealth and teh provincial map redrawn so that teh country now has nine provinces.

May I refer interested readers to

http://www.fotw.net/flags/za_index.html

I wasn't aware that I asked sop many questions! (Assuming the "Stephen" is me") !

Abe,

Regarding your message of February 3rd @ 6:33 a.m.

I found your notes on the ulster & england & south africa flags interesting, and you also noted the origin of the word ''terrorist''. I'm surprised you didn't mention that the world's first ''terrorists'', in addition to eventually establishing the Commission Republic of France and the red, white, and blue tricolor flag in 1793, also established terrorist weights & measures. They are, or were:

time milli/heure – time measure
arc milli/heure – arc measure never established in the first place
weight milli/gravre – weight
linear milli/metre – linear measure
superficial milli/are – superficial measure abandoned
fluid milli/litre – fluid measure abandoned
dry milli/stere – dry measure abandoned

Abe, thanks for the reminder.

Info @

http://www.weights-and-measures.com

And topic:

Napoleon Emperor's Republic of Europe Decadent Weights & Measures Formula

I just caught a naked man interfering with my cattle.

Flipping pervert.