According to reports, some 2.5" of rain fell in three hours around Helmsley and Thirsk yesterday, with up to 1.6" in one hour - three times the usual rate of a heavy shower.

According to the only flood victim interviewed on the 'Today' programme this morning, this led to 'a six foot wall of water'.

Oh, and by the way, the temperature reached 93F in London yesterday

<<<Oh, and by the way, the temperature reached 93F in London yesterday>>>

Think I mentioned this somewhere else, but I haven't heard ONE SINGLE person mention a fahrenheit temperature yet this summer - and everyones been talking about the heat these last few days (the 30 degree heat that is)

From today's BBC news report on the floods - they didn't bother with a metric equivalent:

"In North Yorkshire, drivers were forced to abandon their cars and climb trees to escape rising waters after the River Rye burst its banks with water rising four or five feet within minutes".

re (Andy): "Think I mentioned this somewhere else, but I haven't heard ONE SINGLE person mention a fahrenheit temperature yet this summer - and everyone's been talking about the heat these last few days (the 30 degree heat that is)"

REPLY: Proof positive that you were not listening to the one-day cricket international yesterday between Australia and England

I was listening to a Canadian station this morning (Windsor, Ontario). They were reporting on floods in Alberta, and the report was entirely in metric (mostly kilometers of dike built hastily on the bank).

You must be proud to be the least metric of Commonwealth nations.

In the interest of disclosure, one quoted farmer mentioned "a foot of water" but the government data was all metric.

re (John S-MI): "In the interest of disclosure, one quoted farmer mentioned 'a foot of water', but the government data was all metric"

REPLY: Just like here - a little glimpse of the ever-increasing disconnection opening up on a number of fronts between the politicians/governments of Europe and their peoples

<<You must be proud to be the least metric of Commonwealth nations>>

In your dreams, John!

Check the 'international' thread

Which Commonwealth country is more Imperial? (I'm not claiming any are 100% metric, I'm talking relative)

What other Commonwealth country legislates imperial, and forbids metric by law for certain situations?

Which uses so much Imperial in the press, tv, and radio, and has major publications that are basically all Imperial.

The US is, of course, at least equally bad, but we are exempt from the contest as a non-Commonwealth nation.

The Bahamas is more imperial than the UK and USA put together and multiplied byh a random large number!

I was amazed at how much 'street talk' was also on every label, sign, notice etc.

The Bahamas is a slice of paradise, btw

<<From today's BBC news report on the floods - they didn't bother with a metric equivalent:

"In North Yorkshire, drivers were forced to abandon their cars and climb trees to escape rising waters after the River Rye burst its banks with water rising four or five feet within minutes".>>

According to a recent statement issued by the BBC, they have no policy on metric or imperial. They leave it up to individual programme makers and producers to decide for themselves according to target audience etc.

They say that for every remark calling for more metric they get complaints asking for the opposite. So they try to please both.

But do they?

What we actually get is a random collection of sometimes imperial, sometimes metric but hardly ever both! Certainly not on the screen or in commentary except perhaps a dribble of fahrenheit in weather forecasts.

The BBC don't know which way to turn for the best, and from observing other channels the story is much the same in broadcasting generally.

Maybe one day they will wake up to the fact that they will not please everybody unless they drag down all program material with tediouos dual measures which they are loathe to engage in. So they might just take a stand and go metric as a matter of policy and weather the mini-storm of the wilfully ignorant who pretend not understand metric and finally make life just that bit easier for themselves.

The BBC is respected the world over for its neutral stance on issues, and I agree it should be left to the programme maker to decide based on the target audience. but in the case of the weather the fahrenheit conversions are blatantly unnecessary and don't even really benefit that wilfully ignorant (good phrase Stan!) tiny minority who still insist on them.

To talk of minorities *as* the minority I always find amusing ;-)

<<Maybe one day they will wake up to the fact that they will not please everybody unless they drag down all program material with tediouos dual measures which they are loathe to engage in. So they might just take a stand and go metric as a matter of policy and weather the mini-storm of the wilfully ignorant who pretend not understand metric and finally make life just that bit easier for themselves>>

You could switch that around and say:

Maybe one day they will wake up to the fact that they will not please everybody unless they drag down all program material with tediouos dual measures which they are loathe to engage in. So they might just take a stand and use English as a matter of policy and weather the mini-storm of the politically correct left-leaning back slapping bed wetters of tiny unlistened-to minority groups like the UKMA and their pro-forma letter campaigns who are wilfully ignorant and pretend not to understand what the public use and want and finally make life just that bit easier for themselves.
And their viewers.

(you could change it again to add a 'choice' angle to the bit about dual measures but considering you were simply going off on one I decided to do the same).


P.S. I believe that a few yrs ago the BBC *did* start 'going metric' and documentaries were being expressed in metric.
Then they got a dose of reality and now they use 'proper english' in documentaries etc.
The only downside is that: before they got complaints from the general public while now they are getting complaints from politically motivated minority groups.

Ah well - you can't please all the people all the time.

Well - you can please the vast majority of "ordinary people who don't belong to measurement based pressure groups" in this case, I guess!!



I continue to laugh at how unimportant this stuff is to normal people, despite what I read here!

<<The BBC is respected the world over>>

There is a BBC channel that you not allowed to receive in the UK (its transmitted all over the world but not the UK).

It's called BBC World.

Rest assured that almost all the output is converted into metric - even stuff like wind-speed in km/h etc.

Get yourself a bloody great dish - crack the encryption of the card (I believe D2-MAC is the easiest) and sit in your living room listeneing to lots of metric words while blissfully ignorant to the language going on outside your door.

Take a few tips though
- 100 km is about 60 miles
- a kilo is around 2 pounds
- a km is just over half a mile
- 2 and a half cm makes an inch
- a metre is a bit over a yard
- 30cm is about one foot
- 6 and 1/3 of a kg is about a stone

You'll need this because - shockingly enough - you are most familiar with how your family and peer group speak.

Makes you think, in a way, dunnit?

<<<I continue to laugh at how unimportant this stuff is to normal people, despite what I read here!>>>

Hear hear! Is that finally an admission that deep down normal people don't REALLY care about what measurements they use?

Not an admission.
I've often cited my other-half as one who really can't give a hoot unless it presents itself.

e.g.

We were in a speciality food shop the other day and a lady in front of her asked for "about 130 grammes of such-and-such".

My missus said "I've never heard anyone ask for hundreds of grammes before". She didn't kick up a song and dance - she merely made an observation.

I was slightly surprised but it just proved to me that when the metric stuff happens, (normal) people pick it up and call it odd. It's not all one-sided though, I'd find it odd if someone asked for a quart of wine.

BTW - I thought it odd that someone would aks for "about 130 grammes of..." - i.e. "about" and "130". That'd be like the average person asking for "roughly 5 and two third ounces of cheddar (etc)". It made me think "at least she's trying"!!!

My overall opinion is - few really care (like the wife) but when people start chastising you for talking like you did yesterday, and the day before and claiming that somehow you are "wrong" or "inferior in status or brain power" then those people tend to be called "bankers" by ordinary folk (or at least that's what it sounds like).

However hardly anyone picks up the anomoly that if asked to describe a table it would be "two and a half foot long", yet whenever Argos display the size, out comes the measuring tape to see what exactly xxx millimetres really looks like.



But in the main - I tend to find the posts here quite amuzing - I've learned a lot about little motorway sticks and how to use the national grid in an unorthodox way that I never knew about before - and dare I say it? I reckon you learned that here too!

<<<I've often cited my other-half as one who really can't give a hoot unless it presents itself.>>>

Sorry! She hardly counts as a 'neutral' being married to you!

<<<My missus said "I've never heard anyone ask for hundreds of grammes before". She didn't kick up a song and dance - she merely made an observation.>>>

My point exactly. If she wasn't with you she wouldn't notice something like that.

As someone who does notice these things, I definately hear more people ask in grams than in pounds these days.

Admittedly asking for "about 130g" is a bit odd, but maybe they were following a recipe - or maybe as you say they were still getting to grips with grams. There are still people who ask for stuff in lbs/oz (to confused looks from the person behind the counter)

<<<I was slightly surprised but it just proved to me that when the metric stuff happens, (normal) people pick it up and call it odd. >>>

the metric stuff happens all the time! You just have to open your ears! Seriously in Sainsbury's more people ask for stuff in grams (unfortunately I do tend to pick up on this)

<<<However hardly anyone picks up the anomoly that if asked to describe a table it would be "two and a half foot long", yet whenever Argos display the size, out comes the measuring tape to see what exactly xxx millimetres really looks like.>>>

No-one is pretending the UK is metric, but don't try and make out that people don't understand mm/cm/m. Arguably more people understand cm/m than in/ft

<<Sorry! She hardly counts as a 'neutral' being married to you!>>

I've asked her to comment on this board before- she really can't be bothered.

<<My point exactly. If she wasn't with you she wouldn't notice something like that. >>

This something we can never agree with- i don't know if its a woman thing but they can visualise what and ounce or pound looks like much better than I can.
I realise that you have a girlfriend of european descent ('mainland') but have a word with another female - a sister? cousin? aunt?

<<As someone who does notice these things, I definately hear more people ask in grams than in pounds these days.>>

Prob because grammes "stand out" where as pounds simply make up the motions of a conversation.

<<There are still people who ask for stuff in lbs/oz (to confused looks from the person behind the counter)>>

This is where you are totally wrong (he says in a presumptuous way).
Smaller shops have been dealing in UK measures for umpty years - they ain't gonna forget it all of a sudden.
Supermarkets train their staff to understand what the customer asks and covert it into metric so that the rules are adhered to.

<<the metric stuff happens all the time! You just have to open your ears!>>

I do - and it tends to sound odd when I hear it in unsual situations. It sticks out like a sore thumb in the same way as a quart of wine would.

<< Seriously in Sainsbury's more people ask for stuff in grams (unfortunately I do tend to pick up on this)>>

I can't comment - I don't shop there.
It's certainly not the case at tesco where both imperial and metric are on bold display.

<<No-one is pretending the UK is metric,>>

Some (ironically) foreign observers do!

<< but don't try and make out that people don't understand mm/cm/m. Arguably more people understand cm/m than in/ft >>

I don't don't try and make out that people don't understand mm/cm/m (I was just saying that in approximation people will talk in feet or inches and when the mm is given they'd use a measure), but to claim more people undestand cm/m than in/ft is prepostorous at best.
I'm off for a walk in a moment - I suggest you do the same thing. And listen.

P.S. Have you heard the kids on Radio 1 explaining what happened when the storms came to Glastonbury (in regards to tents, floods, etc) ?

To avoid depression I'd avoid the broadcasts if I were you!

;-)

<<<I've asked her to comment on this board before- she really can't be bothered.>>>

But she knows your interest and viewpoint, which will inevitably interest her. No-one in real life knows my interest or feelings on this issue.

<<<This something we can never agree with- i don't know if its a woman thing but they can visualise what and ounce or pound looks like much better than I can.
I realise that you have a girlfriend of european descent ('mainland') but have a word with another female - a sister? cousin? aunt?>>>

My girlfriend is not european.
I know that in the UK people (especially women) know their weight in imperial - but it is not easy to equate the 2 pounds you lost in a month with a 2 pound block of cheese! It doesn't really work that way.

<<<This is where you are totally wrong (he says in a presumptuous way).
Smaller shops have been dealing in UK measures for umpty years - they ain't gonna forget it all of a sudden.
Supermarkets train their staff to understand what the customer asks and covert it into metric so that the rules are adhered to.>>>

Once you start using a different measure you *DO* forget the other. So in the majority of shops that now weigh in kilos, the staff will be most familiar with that. They will be trained to convert when those awkward customers ask for stuff in old measures.

<<<I do - and it tends to sound odd when I hear it in unsual situations. It sticks out like a sore thumb in the same way as a quart of wine would.>>>

Trust me, asking for stuff by the gram is not unusual! Not in the stores I frequent anyway.

<<<to claim more people undestand cm/m than in/ft is prepostorous at best.>>>

Depending on what you mean by "understand" I think you'd be surprised. Its probably about 50-50

<<But she knows your interest and viewpoint, which will inevitably interest her. No-one in real life knows my interest or feelings on this issue.>>

That's such a strange thing to say!
You don't know anything about her - so how can you make a comment like that?
[I'm not being aggressive, btw, just perplexed]
Being an ex-lifeguard and swimmer she knows all about metres - being a marathon runner she knows all about miles/yards. There is no interest.
She buys the Daily Mail btw.
Despite me constantly bitching about it being a **** paper I haven't decided to like the paper and she has not changed her purchasing options.

<<My girlfriend is not european.>>

Ah - but I'm correct in saying she is from a "metric" couontry?


<<I know that in the UK people (especially women) know their weight in imperial - but it is not easy to equate the 2 pounds you lost in a month with a 2 pound block of cheese! It doesn't really work that way.>>

I was not drawing the distinction. Not in the slightest.
I once was measuring out two ounces (i think) and whilst getting the scales ready she said "come here" snatched the foodstuff and said "don't you know what two ounces looks like?"

STOP LAUGHING!
I know, understand and recognise the irony.

<<Once you start using a different measure you *DO* forget the other.>>

Not when the customer still walks right up to the counter and asks for "half a pound of cheddar". You can swap the scales - but that doesn't swap the customer or his (dare I say it) habits?

<< So in the majority of shops that now weigh in kilos, the staff will be most familiar with that. They will be trained to convert when those awkward customers ask for stuff in old measures. >>

That'll be the majority then! :-D

<<Trust me, asking for stuff by the gram is not unusual! Not in the stores I frequent anyway.>>

What's the ferry ticket-price these days? ;-)

<<Depending on what you mean by "understand" I think you'd be surprised. Its probably about 50-50>>

Do you think I agree?
Guess!

BTW- Glastonbury/Radio 1 - I note you made no comment.

The weidest one was when the "young chick" said:-


"I stood up and was in 3 feet of water"

Think about that.

Why not mention the singularitiness of a neat "one metre" (or infact one yard!!).
But no - despite the ease and one-ness of a metre, combined with the approximation implicit - the young lady chose three of those old fashioned 'feet' thingies.

I heard lots of G'bury (not sure how much you are into it) and heard yards, miles, inches, pints (Pims apparently) and feet. Not once did I hear a metre, km, litre etc etc.

God's honest truth on this one - why would I fib? You could prob use the "listen again" feature on the R1 site if you really want.

What do you reckon the avg age of a glastonbury person is?

R1's "target" is 15 to 25 btw (which makes me feel old!)

<<<That's such a strange thing to say!
You don't know anything about her - so how can you make a comment like that?>>>

I am simply making assumptions based on the fact that she knows about your interest and viewpoint. Whether she is interested or not, your interest if you have made it known to her will influence her in some way.

Whereas my girlfriend (who yes is froma metric country), my friends and family etc know nothing of my interest so are not influenced by me.

<<<She buys the Daily Mail btw.
Despite me constantly bitching about it being a **** paper I haven't decided to like the paper and she has not changed her purchasing options.>>>

Glad you agree its a **** paper! I hope you don't take offence, but I would have thought it would suit your political standpoint? Why do you dislike it?

<<<I was not drawing the distinction. Not in the slightest.
I once was measuring out two ounces (i think) and whilst getting the scales ready she said "come here" snatched the foodstuff and said "don't you know what two ounces looks like?">>>

I do know what you mean. I find it difficult to visualise quantities in grams. With ounces I wouldn't know where to start. I can't think of anything that I know weighs an ounce (with kilos I would start from a bag of sugar)

I guess it depends how much you cook using measured quantities - I cook, but tend to just chuck a bit of that in and a chunk of that without taking much notice of measurements.

<<Depending on what you mean by "understand" I think you'd be surprised. Its probably about 50-50

Do you think I agree?
Guess!>>>

I think probably not! Damn, I really thought I could convince you on that one...

<<<BTW- Glastonbury/Radio 1 - I note you made no comment.

The weirdest one was when the "young chick" said:-

"I stood up and was in 3 feet of water"

Think about that.>>>

I made no comment cos I can't recall any particular references to measurements (though I do listen to R1) and I could counter with references to metres.

I would have noticed that though, because as you say it stands out as "weird" since most would say "a metre"

Don't get me wrong I've never disputed feet being used a lot.

<<
I am simply making assumptions based on the fact that she knows about your interest and viewpoint. Whether she is interested or not, your interest if you have made it known to her will influence her in some way.
>>


Well I hearby guarantee it doesn't
She may notice the BWMA publication coming thru the post every now and again - but that's it. After 6 years me talking about stuff she has no interest in would just be boring.
End of story on that one (I hope)

<<Whereas my girlfriend (who yes is froma metric country), my friends and family etc know nothing of my interest so are not influenced by me.>>

You sound like your interest in this site is akin to other sites that your family and girlfriend don't know you visit ;-)

<<Glad you agree its a **** paper! I hope you don't take offence, but I would have thought it would suit your political standpoint? >>

I'm a libertarian.
The Daily mail is the reason I went onto the net and bought all those horror films they'd suceeded in banning in the 80's once they made it to DVD.

I'm ok with paper's influencing me - but telling me what to do and what not to do? **** right off!

<<Why do you dislike it?>>

I'm not authoritarian.

I agree with its spectral position - but not on its method or (some) policies

I'd fight anyone who'd like it banned though!

<<I do know what you mean. I find it difficult to visualise quantities in grams. With ounces I wouldn't know where to start. I can't think of anything that I know weighs an ounce (with kilos I would start from a bag of sugar) >>

Think of a 20th of a pint of water. That's more or less an ounce in volume. (If someone mentions "mass"......)
Maybe its done by visualising a square inch - I'm not a cook so I can't tell you.


<<I guess it depends how much you cook using measured quantities - I cook, but tend to just chuck a bit of that in and a chunk of that without taking much notice of measurements.>>

A pint or a pound is easy - the rest I'll get her to work out!!

<<I think probably not! Damn, I really thought I could convince you on that one...>>

That Pope bloke - ain't he catholic or something?

(No need for a reminder, Mr Bennet!! ;-) )

<<
I made no comment cos I can't recall any particular references to measurements (though I do listen to R1) and I could counter with references to metres.

I would have noticed that though, because as you say it stands out as "weird" since most would say "a metre">>

You'd think so wouldn't you? (as in just you!) 3-feet, 4-feet, 1-feet was mentioned loads of times.
"I woke up in two inches of sewage" was one that stuck in my mind, strangely enough.
Then there were walls in feet, and such and such yard queues to the beer tent.
And pints of Pims (which I always thought was meant for henley in a couple of weeks time!).
Then the imperial usage in songs (remember that thread?)
I have a friend that does the g'buty thing - you'd never guess he was mad though.

<<Don't get me wrong I've never disputed feet being used a lot.>>

Mainly to stand on whilst watching the artists - but -yes- I know wht you mean there.

At least!

Right - hometime.

<<<You sound like your interest in this site is akin to other sites that your family and girlfriend don't know you visit ;-) >>>

LOL! I would be fairly embarassed about it actually!

<<<I'd fight anyone who'd like it banned though!>>>

Absolutely. So would I.

I have a theory about why so many people (especially women) read the Daily Mail. Its because until recently it was the only sensible-looking (as in no pictures of scantily clad women on the cover) paper in a tabloid format. Now that the Times and Independant do tabloid size papers hopefully its readership will decrease.

re (Andy): "I have a theory about why so many people (especially women) read the Daily Mail. It's because until recently it was the only sensible-looking (as in no pictures of scantily clad women on the cover) paper in a tabloid format. Now that the Times and Independent do tabloid size papers, hopefully its readership will decrease".


REPLY: Not a theory that stands up. The Audit Bureau of Circulation (ABC) reveals that the Daily Mail is the only paper to have consistently gained readers over the past few years, whilst most of the others have declined significantly.

They get good news stories and are connecting with what an awful lot of British people think and feel about Britain today. Its readers raised so much money a couple of years ago that the victims of the Omagh bombing were able to bring proceedings at long last against the vile republican bombers. The Mail was the only British newspaper to run such a campaign.

It's only 40p. and the puzzle page is the best of any daily newspaper.

So people tell me

Don't get me wrong - I realise it may have done a lot of good things in its time - I just don't appreciate being told what I should or should not be able to watch or should or should not be able to smoke, drink, snort etc (disclaimer: I don't 'do drugs' but if thats your cup of tea then I'm not going to lecture).
It affected me in particular - I'm really in to Horror Films - and the DM managed (somehow) to get the VRA drafted up. Overnight all the films I wanted to see were banned Apparently though, if I had watched them I would then go out and brutally murder lots of people and go to jail -so maybe I should thank them for not having to get used to showing with metric-activists (dark joke there).




<<LOL! I would be fairly embarassed about it actually!>>

I wouldn't - its just a topic of debate.

Aaaah [lowers voice] - you mean *****thooooose***** sites!

<<I have a theory about why so many people (especially women) read the Daily Mail. Its because until recently it was the only sensible-looking (as in no pictures of scantily clad women on the cover) paper in a tabloid format.>>

On the surface you should be correct - but "The Sun" claims just as many women readers (per ratio) as any other newpapers - perhaps more in some cases. It's only Claire Short and left-wing middle class males that have made a song and dance about it.


<< Now that the Times and Independant do tabloid size papers hopefully its readership will decrease. >>

I sincerely hope that the independant doesn't claim its 7th reader as a result of tabloidation.

We don't want an autoritarian-left paper getting more readers!

"Independant"? Pah!

Mail Plug June 28 2005, 7:24 PM
re (Andy): "I have a theory about why so many people (especially women) read the Daily Mail.

TB
REPLY:
Not a theory that stands up. The Audit Bureau of Circulation (ABC) reveals that the Daily Mail is the only paper to have consistently gained readers over the past few years, whilst most of the others have declined significantly.

metre
Large circulation usually tells you only one thing, it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Enjoy your read.