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When the world is one

July 3 2005 at 12:40 AM
Stan 

-
Today (2nd July 2005) has been a momentus day for people all round the world who have come together in support of a common cause. To try to start a process of systematically reducing poverty and suffering among so many innocent people in poor countries.

Global communication has made this event possible in a way that couldn't have happened in the past.

I've no wish to take the moral high ground here, but maybe some of the people who post here with nationlist mentality could spare a thought for the need for people to rise above differences of identity and accept the need for common humanity if ever we are to tackle these problems.

It remains to be seen whether the events of today and those planned for the next few days will have any effect on the world leaders but some of the arguments I've seen here suggest that this kind of initiative would never get off the ground on the basis of such attitudes.

 
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Tony Bennett

Make Poverty, Slavery and Corruption History

July 3 2005, 5:53 PM 

Stan,

Let me first agree with you that it does us no harm at all to look up from time to time, collectively, and see what is going on in our world and how we can improve it. And, yes, global technology has helped hundreds of millions in the world to see these Live 8 concerts - though the news media were saying that viewing figures for the event in Africa - where the extra money is supposed to go - were poor. And let me also give due credit to Bob Geldof and others for helpimng to put global poverty into people's minds, at least for a while.

But having said that, I have to add that your posting was one of the cheapest and most complacent and misguided posts I have seen on these boards for a long time. Here are the relevant extracts from what you wrote:

--------------------------------------------

"Today has been a momentous day for people all round the world who have come together...to try to start a process of systematically reducing poverty and suffering...in poor countries. Global communication has made this event possible...I've no wish to take the moral high ground here, but maybe some of the people who post here with nationlist mentality could spare a thought for the need for people to rise above differences of identity and accept the need for common humanity if ever we are to tackle these problems. It remains to be seen whether the events of today and those planned for the next few days will have any effect on the world leaders but some of the arguments I've seen here suggest that this kind of initiative would never get off the ground on the basis of such attitudes"

--------------------------------------------

I will make a few brief points in response.

1. I don't think there is anyone on these boards who posts 'with a nationalist mentality' in the accepted sense of the word 'nationalist'. If your post was partly directed against me (and it was, Stan, wasn't it?), then I admit to being proud of my country of birth and origin (whilst accepting it has made mistakes) and being in favour of retaining all its best features, many of which have been copied around the world. As for metric vs. Imperial measurements, it's not such an important issue as global poverty, but then, as you know, I and many others happen to prefer customary measurements, for a variety of rational and logical reasons, and oppose the compulsory enforcement of another set of measurements, for reasons that are by no means wholly or even substantially 'nationalist'.

I think the kind of attitudes that I and others may display on this board from time to time could be construed as 'patriotic', but not 'nationalistic'. There is quite a difference.

2. Your make the assumption, I think, that in general all forms of international co-operation are a good thing. Well, they're not, and the E.U.'s aid budget is a prime example of why some of us are so opposed to the European Union. One tragedy of the E.U. has been how vast sums of money earmarked for overseas aid have been criminally squandered -mismanaged, mis-spent, and lost through massive corruption and fraud.

Claire Short, who was an Overseas Aid Minsister who cared for the third world, was continually frustrated by the inability of the E.U. aid officials to direct help to where it was needed. She often called for the overseas aid budget to be repatriated to the nation-state, knowing that we used to spend it much more wisely.

Here's just one Internet article which I picked off the net a few minutes ago which touches on just some of the problems:

--------------------

Many overseas aid workers are said to be furious over the way the United Kingdom is handing over £700 million a year of its annual aid budget to the European Commission.

The basic complaint is that a lot of this aid is being wasted by inexperienced people who do not understand the problems of less economically developed countries.

Among the examples, are using EEC funds to re-settle Bushmen in the Kalahari desert against their will, which the charity Survival describes as 'violating international norms'.

In Kenya the E.U. admitted that a £20 million E.U. scheme to build a road north west of Nairobi had gone 'tragically wrong', and caused health damage to 2,000 people.

The work involved digging a quarry and excavating a million tons of rock to build the road, and this resulted in dust from the crushing plant causing an epidemic of respiratory diseases from which people are still dying.

When the quarry was abandoned it flooded and destroyed the water table which deprived hundreds of farmers of their water supplies.

Some people drowned in the quarry, which is now polluted and a breeding ground for mosquitoes. A plea to the E.U. for aid to dig a new borehole to restore clean water, and provide a clinic for increased health problems, was turned down because the money had run out!

In Botswana, Survival International said that the E.U. embarked on a 14 million euro scheme for the management of the Central Kalahari Game Reserve, and offered to pay for water services to be supplied to Bushmen living in the area.

The Bushmen, who are renowned throughout the world for their ability to survive in desert conditions, were then expelled and forced into a resettlement camp which they call 'the place of death' and the water was cut off.

Survival said the cutting off of the water was tantamount to an act of force and they were very concerned about the eviction of the Bushmen and the abuse of their land rights, and did not feel the plans should go ahead.

Survival can be contacted at 6 Charterhouse Buildings, London EC1M 7ET. Tel: 020 7687 8700

-------------------

Stan, *that's* the kind of thing that makes me angry, makes me want to weep.

3. Only last week, the 'Daily Telegraph' carried an article showing that the total amount spent by the West on aid to the whole of West Africa over the past 5 years - £220 billion - was precisely equal to the amount salted away over the same period by corrupt Nigerian political leaders. An illustration that handing out money to African countries without the most stringent and careful conditions attached will achieve nothing - much like Ethiopia.

I actually ran and raised money in the 6-mile Live Aid run in Harlow back in the 1980s (surprising, I know, for someone who perhaps has 'those nationalist attitudes') - but what has happened in Ethiopia since then? Answer: corruption a vast scale, wars like the one with Eritrea, inter-tribal conflicts...very little has changed. Many in Ethiopia are still on the edge of poverty after all that followed the hype of Live Aid.

4. We might also pause to compare the economic success, democracy and political freedom of pre-Mugabe Rhodesia with the corrupt, badly adminstered, oppressive and cruel regime that now operats there - again despite massive Western aid. Perhaps rule by those narrow nationalists and British colonialists might be better - it's cetainly what many in Zimbabwe are crying out for now.

5. Finally, let's focus on the United Nations for a moment. That's another golobalist, communal, body that presumably you would support - in opposition to what presumably you think is the 'narrow nationalist' perspective of nations and governments in Britain and the United Nations. Again, there is an appalling record of corruption and fraud within the U.N., mis-spending on unsuitable projects, not to mention systematic rape and brutality by U.N. staff on local populaces across the globe. The corruption reached right up to the son of U.N. Secretary General, Kofi Annan, and is still being covered up.

Compare that miserable record of the U.N.'s, for example, to the successful efforts of just one nation, Britain, in the early nineteenth century - to abolish the evil of slavery. It wasn't done by pop concerts, nor by international bodies like the E.U. or the U.N.

It was done by determined men and women *in one country*. Sadly, slavery has started up again in many African countries, but strangely no-one seem to be interested in doing anything about that now. How about: 'Make Slavery History' or even 'Make Corruption History'?

No, Stan, I think a possible reaction to the Live 8 concerts is 'let each of us do what he or she can do in his/her own small corner'. And if I were you, I should be very careful, on this issue, of even starting to walk up that footpath of yours to the 'moral high ground'.

Despite your attempt not to place yourself on the moral high ground, that's precisely where you ended up, I'm afraid.

Have a look sometime at how the policies of the World Trade Organisation and E.U. policies on protectionist tariffs and exercising fishing rights off the coast of West Africa contribute to world poverty











 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 3 2005, 8:13 PM 

Tony,

How much money have you wasted fighting the metric system that could have bought kilograms of food and litres of water for the people of Africa. The next time you have an urge to amend a road sign, instead donate the money you would waste on time and supplies to an African charity. Then maybe there will be less weeping.


 
 
Tony Bennettt

"Move over, Stan, I'm on the moral high groud as well" - Daniel Jackson

July 4 2005, 12:18 AM 

re (Daniel Jackson): "Tony, How much money have you wasted fighting the metric system that could have bought kilograms of food and litres of water for the people of Africa. The next time you have an urge to amend a road sign, instead donate the money you would waste on time and supplies to an African charity. Then maybe there will be less weeping"


REPLY: Ah yes, Mr Jackson, pointing the finger now, are we? Perhaps you would care to let us know just how you spend all your spare time and money, so that others can have the opportunity to give you a bit of a lecture as well.

Maybe you're on the same bit of moral high ground as Stan, eh? Very soon, it's going to get awfully crowded up there






 
 
Beranger

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 1:48 AM 

Tony said

"I actually ran and raised money in the 6-mile Live Aid run in Harlow back in the 1980s"

I've never heard of a 6 mile run - perhaps Tony can tell us more about this fascinating new race distance.........

I have heard of 10 km races though. Maybe Tony had his own Imperial finishing line approx 344 metres before everyone else?

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 2:57 AM 

I never did either. I've seen 10 km races sometimes described as 6.2 mile races, but if Tony said that we would all know that it was really intended to be 10 km and the miles only existed in Tony's head and not in the head of the runners. Tony obviously wanted us to think it was a true 6 mile and not a millimetre less or more race.

Some races allow you to donate so many dollars per kilometre. I wonder if this race was like that and if so, how Tony figured his donation.

 
 
metre

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 3:56 AM 

July 3 2005 at 12:40 AM. When the world is one July 3 2005 at 12:40 AM Stan


metre
While I applaud everyone taking part in this very worthwhile undertaking, I do not expect major changes. No amount of aid will improve African’s poverty if they keep supporting corrupt leaders. As to debt relieve, it will only make sense if First World nations stop selling arms to paupers.
More to the point, no amount of aid will right Africa’s woes if Africans don’t change their ways.
That reminds me of a cartoon seen some time ago that depicted 2 whites in an African colony being pulled in a Rickshaw by an African. After independence, the same Negro pulls his countrymen, and as far as I know, still does.

 
 
Buck

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 10:19 AM 

The only answer is colonization. (preferably British).

Look at Canada, Australia, India. The British did a great job there. (I suppose that the USA could be included, but that might upset some). The big mistake that the British made was to pull out too soon and let colonies become independent before they had the nouse to run things themselves.

A new Empire would stimulate trade, inculcate proper respect for property and money and teach the ignorant that the proper basis of a civil society is the rule of law.

I will stop now. There is a risk that I might end up writing drivel.

Btw: No disrespect is intended to those who are trying to highten debate on this important topic.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 12:06 PM 

I believe Stan's post was mis-guided, and I believe Daniel's point (ie to say lots of metric words in one-post) just truly pathetic - considering the topic of conversation.

Personally I watched the whole event in People's park in Jersey. I thought it was brilliant.

Two (very different) thoughts that flew into my head were:

- Isn't it weird that while you are in the womb you are comparitively safe - but when you "leave" you could find yourself being in line to the throne of the United Kingdom or you could find yourself in line to a lifetime of abject povery and misery? All as an accident on your location of birth.

- Why didn't anyone mention that the EU is active in stopping African produce being easily sold to Europeans? 'They don't want charity' - is what was mentioned - but the *reverse* charity of this situation is perverse!

So on the whole I was very proud to be a Brit supporting this event and I loved the very British start to the Hyde Park bit.
I really don't think that there's a conflict with being proud of your country and being part of such an international event.




P.S. There are 6 mile races and 10K races (6.2 miles). Trying to score points on that silly argument looked truly ridiculous considering it was being used in a discussion around people dying of poverty.

If you want to pretend there's no such thing as a six mile race, or that the London marathon (or vinyl records) are really really metric (whilst trying hard, as an American, not to spell the words in the US way) then post it on another thread to be ridiculed there.

I note that not one pro-imp/pro-choice has mentioned/capitalised on something that Bob Geldof said as he was introducing the US bit.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 1:27 PM 

"- Why didn't anyone mention that the EU is active in stopping African produce being easily sold to Europeans? 'They don't want charity' - is what was mentioned - but the *reverse* charity of this situation is perverse!"




Why shouldn't they stop it? If Africa is starving, why should they be selling food to Europe instead of feeding their own people with it? Now that in itself is pathetic. So who would benefit from the sale? Corrupt governments who would use the money to enrich themselves even more? Those who are well fed using the money to buy weapons which will be used to enslave their own people even further?

I applaud the European action if this is really true. You are EU-bashing just for the sake of EU bashing. You can't get any more perverse then that.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 1:29 PM 

What a twit!

lol!

(hint before next post - look up 'CAP')

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 2:19 PM 

One of the signs of not being able to prove your point is to result to name calling. I hope your next move is not to start screaming and pouting. I need not say more!

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 2:47 PM 

[SCREAM] [SCREAM] [POUT] [POUT]

(dammit!)

 
 
Stan

Re: When the world is one

July 4 2005, 10:36 PM 

<<No, Stan, I think a possible reaction to the Live 8 concerts is 'let each of us do what he or she can do in his/her own small corner'. And if I were you, I should be very careful, on this issue, of even starting to walk up that footpath of yours to the 'moral high ground'.>>

Whatever the practical and political obstacles to tackling global poverty they are hardly likely to be solved by individuals acting in isolation.

I suggest Tony it is you who needs to think again. Whatever the failures of international organisations to deal with this, it wont be put right by condemning their entire existence or just using it as an excuse to blame the evils of the world on the EU.


 
 
SteveH

Re: When the world is one

July 5 2005, 10:46 AM 

But a shift in attitude of the EU won't exaclty harm it's reputation!

 
 
Tony Bennett

Lord Geldof's 2025 Concert

July 5 2005, 12:58 PM 

NEWS JUST IN:

"Early bookings are now being taken for Live 25, the great concert to be held in Hackney Multicultural Recreation Space in 2025!

Lord Geldof will be hosting the event in order to draw attention to African poverty. "Let's end poverty, for once and for all", he says.

A particular concern will be hunger in South Africa, where farming has collapsed following the last white farmers leaving before they were evicted. The country is sinking into famine under its dictator Thabo Mbeki, but other African leaders say the West, whose imperialism and colonialism caused all Africa's problems, must not intervene.

Lord Geldof is certain that the wave of sympathy and awareness of Africa's plight in 2025 will bring a change. "Third time lucky", he added




 
 
Tony Bennett

Lincolshire Echo Editorial

July 5 2005, 3:51 PM 

From today's Lincolnshire Echo.

Talk about hypocrisy!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"THERE is something vaguely amusing about the fact that Live 8 performers are now facing calls to hand revenue generated through extra sales of their CDs over to charity.

A survey by a high Street retailer reckons that at least one of the bands on stage in Hyde Park has seen sales of its latest offering rise by an astonishing 1,300 per cent.

Anti-poverty campaigners say the money for these sales should be handed over to their cause. But the music stars have, so far, declined to play ball.

Which means that millionaire celebrities who were so quick to criticise our democratically elected politicians for penny-pinching are now on the wrong end of the same allegation!

The irony will surely not be lost on Government ministers who, on a day-to-day basis, have to juggle with competing claims on the public purse.

Ministers are not able to peddle only one issue, demanding that taxpayers' money is pushed in that direction, no matter the effect on other good causes.

What's more, unlike Bob Geldof and Bono, their policies face genuine scrutiny and real questioning. Nor for them the celebrity status that guarantees a sychophantic national media profile.

Live 8 musicians should hand over their own money to alleviate poverty in Africa. And if they don't, perhaps our MPs should organise a concert to persuade them to do so"

_________________

P.S. Seconded!



 
 
Tony Bennett

Live 8 Concert - Loadsamoney spent on - buying CDs!!!

July 5 2005, 5:33 PM 

Increases in album sales - last few days.

It's an ill wind! Wonder if it's all those 'narrow nationalists' with their 'wrong attitudes' who have been buying the CDs, instead of, er, giving money to Oxfam and, er, 'making poverty history:


1. Pink Floyd - The Wall - 3600%
2. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here - 2000%
3. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon - 1400%
4. The Who - The Ultimate Collection - 1400%
5. Pink Floyd - Animals - 1000%
6. Velvet Revolver - Contraband - 1000%
7. Robbie Williams - Greatest Hits - 800%
8. Pink Floyd - Echoes: The Best of Pink Floyd - 600%
9. Razorlight - Up All Night - 600%
10. The Killers - Hot Fuss - 200%
11. Kaiser Chiefs - Employment - 200%
12. Dido - Life for Rent - 200%
13. Joss Stone - Mind, Body and Soul - 200%
14. Scissor Sisters - Scissor Sisters - 200%
15. Madonna - Immaculate Collection - 150%


 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 5 2005, 6:34 PM 

Why not invite the band METRIC to play?

http://www.ilovemetric.com/band.html

 
 
Tony Bennett

Metric Africa

July 5 2005, 6:56 PM 

I agree with the suggestion that the band METRIC should play a concert for Africa.

Imperial-unit America and Imperial-unit Britain helping poor metric Africa.

Highly symbolic





 
 
Stan

Re: When the world is one

July 5 2005, 8:18 PM 

Tony, I feel sorry for you, I really do.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 5 2005, 9:11 PM 

The US is not imperial. We have a different system then yours. The majority of units with the same name differ in value, enough for one to be illegal for trade in the other's country.

Nor are we fully "English" either. Our largest and most prosperous industries are metric. If you have read John's posts you would know this. Everything we import is metric. The money in America is metric.

Neither is your country fully imperial. The products your country imports as well as exports are all metric. Your petrol is metric and the products you buy in the shops are metric produced and metric sold. You may not be fully metric, but you are far from being fully imperial.

 
 
JohnS-MI

Re: When the world is one

July 5 2005, 9:51 PM 

<<Nor are we fully "English" either. Our largest and most prosperous industries are metric. If you have read John's posts you would know this. >>

Some are, not all, even of the majors
Metric: Auto, electronics, pharmaceutical
Imperial: Petroleum/petrochemicals, Aviation/aerospace (it's probably mixed)

And there are plenty where I don't know, or it varies from company to company. I have seen claims that as much as 40% of US industry is metric, but I don't know that to be correct. It could be. It is probably closer to 40% than it is to 0% or 100%.

 
 
Tony Bennett

Responsible for many evils, most certainly, Stan

July 6 2005, 9:56 AM 

re (Stan): "...excuse to blame the evils of the world on the E.U."

REPLY: Of course, I've never done that, but here - from today's 'Daily Telegraph' - is yet another reason why the E.U. needs to be closed down. So many peole seem to be in total denial about all its faults.

Aid to third world countries - which you profess to support - would improve dramatically the moment the E.U. is shut down. For a start, we could save the hundreds of millions of pounds a year that they give away to Hammas, the Al Aqsa Mertyrs' Brigade and other Palestinian terrorists and suicide-bombers, to spend on, er, killing as many Jews as possible:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outrage grows at EU treatment of whistleblower

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard (Filed: 06/07/2005)

Euro-MPs expressed outrage yesterday over the treatment of an EU official driven from her job for exposing widespread fraud at the European Commission's Eurostat data office.

So far, no Eurostat official has been punished for the diversion of £3m of taxpayer funds into illegal accounts over three years ago in a scam described as a "vast enterprise of looting" by investigators.

All the accused - mostly French officials - are still working for the EU or have retired with full pensions.

But the EU accountant who helped uncover the Eurostat abuses, Dorte Schmidt-Brown, fled home to Denmark after being subjected to a campaign of threats and harassment.

Lord Kinnock, then adminstration commissioner, said she had been treated "disgracefully" and sent a personal apology - after initially dismissing her claims as groundless.

Yesterday the European Court of First Instance refused her claim for redress and ordered her to pay her own costs.

Chris Heaton-Harris, a Tory MEP and leading anti-fraud campaigner, described the verdict as "disgusting", accusing Euro-judges of closing ranks to defend the EU machine in every single case involving whistleblowers.

He said the EU's anti-fraud office had brushed the scandal under the carpet, dropping plans for a final report revealing what happened to the missing money.

"They're covering it up, hoping we'll all forget about it," he said. Romano Prodi, then Commission president, pledged to leave "not a single stone unturned" to reach the truth.

Yet MEPs on the budget control committee still have no idea where the money went, though it is known that small sums were diverted to a riding club used by Eurostat insiders and lavish expenses in the US and Caribbean.

Jens-Peter Bonde, a Danish MEP, said the only two people have ever been "punished" for the affair: the whistleblower herself and the German journalist who broke the story, Hans-Martin Tillack, who was arrested by Belgian police on the basis of charges now proved to have been trumped up by the Commission itself.

The police seized Mr Tillack's computers, telephones, address books and five years of investigative files, exposing his inside sources. In his recent case, the European Court also ruled in favour of Brussels, even though seizure of a reporter's notes are a breach of European human rights law.


Telegraph Group Limited 2005




 
 
Andy

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 10:33 AM 

<<<So many peole seem to be in total denial about all its faults.>>>

And some are in denial about all its benefits. The realists see both its faults and its benefits.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 11:43 AM 

<<The money in America is metric.>>

That pretty much sums his economic knowledge up!

BTW - Citing an unknown band as a way of advertising metric is hardly going to win you points.

What next "Bearded Nerds With Attitide" ?

or "SI-Club 7"

or "Geek Play"

?

 
 
Andy

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 12:04 PM 

"22.86 centimetre Nails"

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 12:36 PM 

OMG! You actually worked that one out! What would your girlfriend and family think?

;-)

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 2:38 PM 

I'd rather not see nine inch nails converted to centimetres. The type of noise they generate is best associated with the confusion of imperial, not the harmony of SI.

 
 

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 3:23 PM 

I'd rather listen to six-inch nails than borrow your Barry Manilow CD.

 
 
Tony Bennett

Ever closer, ever closer, ever closer

July 6 2005, 4:41 PM 

re (Andy): "And some are in denial about all its benefits. The realists see both its faults and its benefits..."

REPLY: "...and despite all its faults insist that the E.U. political elite carries out its master-plan to achieve 'ever-closer union' and full political integration into an E.U. superstate, even though it's crystal clear by now that the people don't want it"




 
 
Andy

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 4:54 PM 

<<<and despite all its faults insist that the E.U. political elite carries out its master-plan to achieve 'ever-closer union' and full political integration into an E.U. superstate, even though it's crystal clear by now that the people don't want it>>>

And because the people don't want it, it won't happen. Have a bit of faith in democracy.

The idea of an E.U superstate may be a dream of some politicians, but realistically it aint gonna happen. Certainly the more the EU expands to include more and more diverse countries (eastern Europe, Turkey even) the less chance there is of "ever-closer union" The EU will either work towards being what the people want it to be, or it will fail.

I really don't know what you are so paranoid about.

 
 
Tony Bennett

'Acquis communautaire' - the irreversible and ever-inceasing list of E.U. powers

July 6 2005, 5:10 PM 

re (Andy): "The idea of an E.U superstate may be a dream of some politicians, but realistically it ain't gonna happen"

REPLY: At best, wishful thinking. More realistically, denial. Heard of 'acquis communautaire' yet, Andy?


 
 
Rip

Re: When the world is one

July 6 2005, 6:11 PM 

It'll never happen.

 
 
Tony Bennett

Never say never

July 6 2005, 9:09 PM 

re (Rip): "It'll never happen"

REPLY: Isn't that what they said about the sinking of the Titanic?





 
 
Stan

The evil EU

July 7 2005, 10:11 PM 

<<Aid to third world countries - which you profess to support - would improve dramatically the moment the E.U. is shut down. For a start, we could save the hundreds of millions of pounds a year that they give away to Hammas, the Al Aqsa Mertyrs' Brigade and other Palestinian terrorists and suicide-bombers, to spend on, er, killing as many Jews as possible:>>

I wasn't aware of this funding nor do I know much about that group. However since you raised it for my benefit I looked into it only to find what I half expected. Yes the 7 million euros given to them could be seen as controversial but it was hardly intended to finance the "killing of jews". It was actually to fund legal reforms intended to help bring peace to the region. The murderous construction you put on it was only to be expected.

I'm not saying I support these EU initiatives but I would point out that there have been plenty of occasions where America has supported violent groups or regimes on the basis of shared interest and defence of freedom only to find the guns and arms turned back on them.

Perhaps we should "shut down" America too.

In any case I never mentioned the EU in my original post. What I said had nothing to do with it. But as usual you jump straight on your usual bandwagon.

 
 
Tony Bennett

The European Union and its £200 million annual aid to the Palestinian Authority

July 8 2005, 12:56 AM 

Stan, I don't know where you got the figure of seven million euros from. Below, for information, and without further comment at this difficult time, is an article I wrote for 'Briti Churc Newspao, published 13 September last year:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article for British Church Newspaper

E.U. Funding of Palestinian Terror Reaches Record Proportions

by our Europe correspondent


A new report, released last month by the Funding for Peace Coalition, explains how grants of over £7 billion have been paid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) over the past 10 years, the biggest single contributor being the European Union, which has recently increased its annual funding to around £200 million.

E.U. funding of the Palestinians began in 1971 but accelerated dramatically after the signing of the Oslo accords in 1993.

Much of the money ends up in the hands of terrorist groups or is distributed among the family and friends of Yasser Arafat and other PA leaders, the report says. “We are alarmed at the absence of adequate controls and responsibility in the management of E.U. aid to the Palestinians”. Recent evidence found over 7,000 fictitious names on the Palestinian Authority payroll out of a total of 140,000 recipients.

NEPOTISM

The report says: “Nepotism is rife”. Riots in Gaza against nepotism and corruption took place in July this year. When Prime Minister Abu Mazen resigned on 7th September last year, he said: “£40 million is stolen every year by PA leaders”. Although the E.U outlawed the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a notorious terrorist organisation, it has been and remains on the PA payroll, says the report, along with other militant groups like Force 17 and Tanzim. Marwan Barghout, a convicted murderer and Tanzim leader, still draws a salary from the E.U.-supported part of the PA budget. Money sent to the PA also funds the printing and distribution of anti-Israeli hate literature and teaching materials. The report notes that: “Clear, documented evidence exists to tie terrorist Palestinian leaders with some of the world’s most infamous acts of terrorism, such as the Munich Olympics massacres and numerous suicide attacks”.

STOLEN

Even Palestinian groups are complaining that the money never reaches the people in real need and is used to fund terror campaigns and weapons. Yet the report highlights that several million pounds a month is paid by the E.U. straight into the PA’s bank account, with no means of checking how the money is used and certainly no audit trail. Former PA Interior Minister, Mohammad Dahlan, said last month: “All of the funds which foreign countries have donated to the Palestinian Authority have gone down the drain”. A leading Palestinian human rights activist said: “The biggest problem the Palestinians face today is that they have a leadership that is continuing to steal their money”.

With the PA receiving massive aid from the World Bank and from many European countries direct as well as from the E.U., Nigel Roberts of the World Bank summed up: “Financial aid to the Palestinians is the highest per capita aid transfer in the history of foreign aid anywhere”.

E.U. Commissioner Chris Patten, responsible for E.U. overseas aid and a leading Roman Catholic, has resisted all attempts to investigate how funds sent to the PA are monitored. When pressure mounted for a full-scale investigation, he said: “We need an investigation like a hole in the head”.

---------------------------------------------------------
T Bennett, 12 September 2004. Copyright waived

 
 
Tony Bennett

The European Union and its £200 million annual aid to the Palestinian Authority

July 8 2005, 12:57 AM 

Stan, I don't know where you got the figure of seven million euros from. Below, for information, and without further comment at this difficult time, is an article I wrote for 'British Church Newspaper, published 13 September last year:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article for British Church Newspaper

E.U. Funding of Palestinian Terror Reaches Record Proportions

by our Europe correspondent


A new report, released last month by the Funding for Peace Coalition, explains how grants of over £7 billion have been paid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) over the past 10 years, the biggest single contributor being the European Union, which has recently increased its annual funding to around £200 million.

E.U. funding of the Palestinians began in 1971 but accelerated dramatically after the signing of the Oslo accords in 1993.

Much of the money ends up in the hands of terrorist groups or is distributed among the family and friends of Yasser Arafat and other PA leaders, the report says. “We are alarmed at the absence of adequate controls and responsibility in the management of E.U. aid to the Palestinians”. Recent evidence found over 7,000 fictitious names on the Palestinian Authority payroll out of a total of 140,000 recipients.

NEPOTISM

The report says: “Nepotism is rife”. Riots in Gaza against nepotism and corruption took place in July this year. When Prime Minister Abu Mazen resigned on 7th September last year, he said: “£40 million is stolen every year by PA leaders”. Although the E.U outlawed the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a notorious terrorist organisation, it has been and remains on the PA payroll, says the report, along with other militant groups like Force 17 and Tanzim. Marwan Barghout, a convicted murderer and Tanzim leader, still draws a salary from the E.U.-supported part of the PA budget. Money sent to the PA also funds the printing and distribution of anti-Israeli hate literature and teaching materials. The report notes that: “Clear, documented evidence exists to tie terrorist Palestinian leaders with some of the world’s most infamous acts of terrorism, such as the Munich Olympics massacres and numerous suicide attacks”.

STOLEN

Even Palestinian groups are complaining that the money never reaches the people in real need and is used to fund terror campaigns and weapons. Yet the report highlights that several million pounds a month is paid by the E.U. straight into the PA’s bank account, with no means of checking how the money is used and certainly no audit trail. Former PA Interior Minister, Mohammad Dahlan, said last month: “All of the funds which foreign countries have donated to the Palestinian Authority have gone down the drain”. A leading Palestinian human rights activist said: “The biggest problem the Palestinians face today is that they have a leadership that is continuing to steal their money”.

With the PA receiving massive aid from the World Bank and from many European countries direct as well as from the E.U., Nigel Roberts of the World Bank summed up: “Financial aid to the Palestinians is the highest per capita aid transfer in the history of foreign aid anywhere”.

E.U. Commissioner Chris Patten, responsible for E.U. overseas aid and a leading Roman Catholic, has resisted all attempts to investigate how funds sent to the PA are monitored. When pressure mounted for a full-scale investigation, he said: “We need an investigation like a hole in the head”.

---------------------------------------------------------
T Bennett, 12 September 2004. Copyright waived

 
 
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