'The Red House' pub and restaurant at Longstowe, Cambridgeshire, was the venue for ARM's successul 'Winter Social' earlier today. It's on the A1198 between Royston and Huntingdon. It was formerly the A10; before that it was Ermine Street, and before that, by the way, a British straight road. All the Romans did in terms of road construction was to cobble together the previous British roads.

'The Red House' is also situated on the 'green lane' (a footpath-cum-bridleway) which runs from Oxford to Cambridge.

The venue was chosen after the landlord agreed to convert his two roadside hoardings to yards. Up until this week, his signs advised motorists that 'The Red House' was '100 metres' ahead. But the landlord agreed ARM could amend them, and we used a professional sign-writer to eradicate the metres and substitute '100 yards' and '200 yards' - in the previous colours of yellow and dark brown. One of the signs was placed 200 yards away from the pub, so we substituted 200 yards for the previously inaccurate metric distance of '100 metres'.

The day began with a photoshoot at some signs previously amended by ARM at Arrington. Fifteen people in an assortment of yellow jackets and safety helmets were pictured, to help illustrate ARM's growth in numbers. Altogether 20 people joined us at different times of the day, including a Pakistani who has been a Labour Councillor for 12 years, just in case the politically correct thought police suspect ARM of not being 'diverse', 'inclusive', 'multicultural' etc. He was able to give us all the Urdu words for 'inch', 'pound, 'pint' etc., and as he visits Pakistan regularly he was able to give us first-hand evidence that Pakistan is nowhere near being the 'fully metric' country claimed by the metricists.

Then on to 'The Red House', where there was excellent food and, of course, real ale in a CAMRA-approved environment. One supporter brought along Exhibit A, a one ounce musket ball, which he claimed 'was the weapon that defeated a previous attempt to get us into a European Union'. Another, more usefully, presented ARM with a cheque for £50.

The spanking new 'Imperial' road-sign hoardings were then re-erected in place, with landlord Martin Willis being photographed along with ARM Chairman 'Wun Ton'.

The sign writer didn't want to be paid for his work and said 'a pint of beer' would be adequate reward. We insisted his price was too low, whereupon he asked for £5, which we doubled.

We plan a third 'Annual Summer Social', somewhere in the Midlands, on a Saturday in June

I find this a little confusing:

"The sign writer didn't want to be paid for his work and said 'a pint of beer' would be adequate reward. We insisted his price was too low, whereupon he asked for £5, which we doubled."

Did he not want to be paid because he supported your cause? If so why did you not gracefully accept his generosity.

You are a funny lot!

Shortly after ARM's appearance, there was the knitting contest, in which Petulia Butterworth re-established her reputation as the "fastest knitter around".
Also the annual bake-off should not be forgotten, in which Mary Winterbottom jeopardized her championship by experimenting with a new kind of baking soda. Only the remarkable frosting gave her the extra points needed.

The signwriter deeply supports our cause, but that's no reason to take advantage of his generosity. We may well need him again, and I hope our payment to him will make it more likely that we can call upon him if needed in future.

As the Good Book says: "The labourer is worthy of his hire"

LOL Ralf

Ralf! Be nice or I will send you to bed.

Procrustes, introduce yourself to us before you start trying to be funny...

Hello Conrad.
My name is Procustes.
Was that a command?

Just out of curiosity, Procrustes, how did you come up with that name? It doesn't sound much like Charles Barley.

The eldest son in our family is always named Procrustes.
Greek origin - ancestors were from Attica.
Charles Barley is a convenient pseudonym.

Barley was chosen because I drink scotch. Single malt and only single malt.
Blended scotch is an abomination. If possible, I would make single malt the only available alcoholic beverage. I do not understand the need for choice and diversity. "One standard for all" is my motto! What could be more egalitarian than that?

I digress. My interest in this board stems from the fact that I am not adverse to thieving, violence and wanton destruction. I was told that I could meet like-minded people here. From what I have seen so far, it all looks a bit tame.

My hobby is the purchase and sale of collectibles and curiosities. If anyone has any traffic signs in their posession, I may be interested. "London Bridge - One Mile", that type of thing. Probably best to snap them up now before they all disappear.

You're very funny, aren't you?

A real person? Not a cat?
Do I detect irony in your response?
I do not think you are egalitarian.
Please treat me the same as you treat others.
Where is my prize?

I hid it behind the bike sheds - its on a 5ft stepladder, just ask the janitor

During the past two year, 1,910 metric signs in the U.K. have been removed from roadsides or footpaths, or amended back into Imperial units. Authorities such as East Cambridgeshire Council, Buckinghamshire County Council and Lee Valley Park have fully conceded that their previous metric-only signs were illegal - and are now erecting in Imperial. All the cycleway network signs (Sustrans) in the country are in Imperial.

And according to the latest independent survey, 86% of British people prefer Imperial distances (and no government would go against such overwhelming popular opinion, would they now?)

The ARM storage unit already has a wide range of metric signs, unclaimed by local authorities, which you are welcome to - even though they might one day be of great antique value.

If you want further details of the wide range of metric signs we currently have in stock, please let us know on the board and I'll post further details

Tony,

the "independent" survey:
Is that "independent" as in UK "Independence" Party ?

Ralf

LOL again.

I meant 'independent' in the sense of:

- a poll commissioned
- according to strict British Market Research Society principles
- of 1,001 adults
- aged 18-plus
- in Great Britain
- between 26 and 28 April this year
- by independent pollsters ICM.

You can check the results by contacting them direct.

The survey was commissioned by a Mr Cairns

...nice response!

ARM boast about the total number of signs that have been 'ammended' or stolen as a kind of trophy.

It is equally a sign of failure.

Every sign that is interfered with because it's metric is further evidence that ARM are being ignored or not taken seriously.

You quote a few local authorites who have now proclaimed that they will in future comply with the regs.

This after at least 2 years campaigning, probably more. You (Tony Bennett) made the claim in court that thousands of local authorities are falling foul of the law.

Doesn't strike me that you have made all that much progress.

ARM will go down in history like King Canute who thought he could turn back the tide.

I will stand corrected on one point in my previous post.

"You (Tony Bennett) made the claim in court that thousands of local authorities are falling foul of the law."

The actual figure was 107, I was quoting from (vague) memory. However I stand by everything else.

re: pip: "King Canute who thought he could turn back the tide"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding of the historical record was that King Cnut's subjects thought of him as so powerful as almost to be a 'god'. In order to disabuse them of this, he took some of them to the coast and illustrated his strictly limited powers by commanding the tide to recede, which of course it didn't

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Impact of ARM's Campaign

1. The current total of demetricated signs now stands at 1,913. As we have always made plain, this includes many instances where we, other members of BWMA and many ordinary citizens have achieved demetrications simply by writing letters to Councils or other authorities.

2. The total of 1,913 represents a very significant proportion of metric distance and dimension signs erected in the U.K. I would be very disappointed if this did not represent at least 50%.

3. New signs on roads and footpaths in metric are very rare these days. Many of the signs being reported to us are not new ones being erected but simply the result of our growing army of educated 'spotters' (see point 5 below) telling us about them.

4. Those authorities which have erected metric signs in the past, and especially where we have taken 'direct action', appear from information supplied by our spotters not to have erected any more. Examples include: Manchester, London Boroughs of Islington, Lewisham and Haringey, Northampton, Harlow, East Cambridgeshire - and in the construction sector - Transco.

5. The general public is far better informed about the issue. In particular, tens of thousands if not more of them are now aware that metric distance signs are illegal.

6. The process of metrication is not as irresistible as an incoming tide. And even tides only come up to a certain limit before receding

Sorry about my blank message - I was about to relate the story of King Canute, but Tony beat me to it.

However I disagree with Tony about the tide of metrication turning back.

Strange post of yours.

For over a year now I've seen not one metric sign.

Before that I was irritated by loads that had popped up here-or-there.

I'm either choosing my route selectively or *something* has changed.

Maybe you should open your eyes and look around next time you're out for a drive?

I am unmoved about the point concening King Canute. Whether he did it because he believed he could or not is not the point. The only pertinent fact is he couldn't.

All the ARM campaign is managed to do is force those responsible for erecting signs (in some cases), that are subject to the TSRGD, to comply with the regs. This doesn't mean they will persist with imperial signs if the law was ammended to allow metric signs.

And there is your real battle!

The DoT has made pronouncements like "we have no plans to change over to metric on roads" (paraphrased) but we all know that means very little in the world of politics.

The tide you have to turn back is very real and pervasive. Your temporary successes will count for little in the long run.

re: "your temporary successes will count for little in the long run"


...which is probably what all Soviet dissidents were told from 1917 until 1989, when the Berlin Wall was hacked to pieces.

I'm also reminded of Voltaire's confident prediction that within a generation o his death, belief in the Bible would have died out completely. Yet within 100 years of this pronouncement, his former house became the first headquarters of the French Bible Society

Tony, if you're saying that ARM's opposition to the use of metric measures on signs is on religious and political grounds then I rest my case.

I think he showed that anything is possible when it seems that all powers are against you.

In other words - never give up

But when metrication reaches road signs (and it will happen), will ARM be praying on the odd local authority here and there which breaches the regulations requiring metric signs? I somehow think not.

I used to think that metric roadsigns were an eventuality too.

I guess some people even thought that esperanto would make english redundant.

On your deathbed (ie when you're really old, I wasn't putting a curse on you!) ask a kid older than 10 how tall he is.

Some things will never change.

Well, unless we get another "Hitler" or something!

"Some things will never change."

Of course they won't. I always measure my bear baiting rods in poles.

re: "I always measure my bear baiting rods in poles"

...just like most allotments in this country, then - most Councils still let them by the rod or pole

That's interesting Tony.

I wonder how many local tax paying garden enthusiasts know what a rod or pole is?

"Measure should be made for Man, not Man made for Measure".

I do not believe in the doctrine of inevitability, but even if metrication was evitable, the first half of this saying is still worth fighting for.

Agree.

Measure should be made for Man
and should connect the mind to nature
for the good of both.

Ross - you surprise me, I never saw you as a callous bear baiter.

A bit like that evil kid who describes himself as 4ft5in. A true parallel of evil disguised as "old fashioned"

Hmmmm....

Come on, you know what I mean.

You are equating the use of imperial measures with evil things that have happened in the past.

It does not work that way.

All I'm talking about is the statement and its similarities used so often throughout history, "some things never change".

BWMA, Leonard.

I am puzzled by this. All measures are invented/defined by man, imperial/customary or metric. If they are not made for man then who on Earth are they for?

Pip,
The point of the saying, as applied to metric, is that metric was based on the earth as part of the new rationalism of Revolutionary France. It was deliberately designed to be a break from traditional systems. Therefore, people have to adapt to metric.

Hence to this day people in the english speaking world "naturally" describe themselves as, say, 5ft 11in rather than the equiv in mm, cm, m or a mix thereof - EVEN THOUGH the primary education unit is metric.

Some people call it habit but most see it as getting from A to B most comfortably without needing a calculator, writing material and a measuring stick based on the speed of light.

My view is that the popularity of such a system is based merely on familiarity.

Steve,

The inch is now defined as being 0.0254 m exactly. The foot is exactly 12 inches.

Enough said?

Therefore the measuring stick is based on the speed of light after all.

Steveh wrote: "Hence to this day people in the english speaking world "naturally" describe themselves as, say, 5ft 11in rather than the equiv in mm, cm, m or a mix thereof - EVEN THOUGH the primary education unit is metric."

On the continent everyone "naturally" describes himself as, say, 1 m 85.

A lot of people speak English there as well.

"Old chestnut" springs to mind!

Conrad wrote
<<
On the continent everyone "naturally" describes himself as, say, 1 m 85.
>>



Ross wrote
<<
A lot of people speak English there as well.
>>


My observations in the Continent (based on working in the Netherlands, Germany and Italy over a period of three years) is that English language and metric units is the pricipal means of international communication.

It is worth noting that almost half of the most common units of Imperial/customary measure have different meanings in the US and in the UK.

Units with the same meaning:
inch, foot, yard, mile, pound, [solid] ounce.

Units with different meaning:
gallon, quart, pint, fluid ounce, hundredweight, ton.

It makes sense therefore to use a consistent set of units in international commuinications. Such a set exists - SI.

Couldn't agree more !

I don't agree with the inclusion of the hundredweight and ton. The US uses the "short" hundredweight and ton, while the UK has (or had) the "long" versions.

The terms "long" and "short" do not officially exist. They came into being in international trade to overcome the confusion caused by the US and the UK having different tons. It should be remembered that tons and hundredweights are used by wholesale merchants and are therefore often used internationally whereas the other measures are used more commonly by retailers so are used locally.