From a letter received last week by ARM from a supporter:

"On a very rare visit to London yesterday, and a rather rapid progress along Oxford Street, I noticed that stalls and kiosks that are on streets adjoining Oxford Street were displaying large signs, advising that MacDonalds' (I *think* it was MacDonalds) is '50 metres >' etc.

"What did register was the metric part! - written in large, red letters. Are these signs legal - they are displayed very prominently on public highways?".


ANSWER: "No, and they will be dealt with" - ARM

"No, and they will be dealt with".

Tony, reading this I have this mental image of you stading there like Robin Hood, with green tights, square glasses and receding hairline.

Hehe.

Ralf

Ralf,

High visibility jacket, yellow hard hat, stepladder, paint pot and brush, and high-adhesive reflective lettering actually - plus portable 'Danger - Men at Work' sign which adds an authentic touch and helps to fool the Police.

All more difficult in central London now, due to the congestion charge. But I hear that after 6.30pm in the evening is free of the £5 charge - and British Summer Time is just around the corner

"portable 'Danger - Men at Work' sign which adds an authentic touch and helps to fool the Police."

LOL

Tony:I note that the member of your "anti" fan club has been posting on the metricsucks board.

No worries, I've been winding him up on EVERYONE's (even some pro-metric people) behalf!

Is that Eric?

I don't believe so, some words have more than one syllable.

{All more difficult in central London now, due to the congestion charge. But I hear that after 6.30pm in the evening is free of the £5 charge - and British Summer Time is just around the corner}

Congestion charge? Sounds like the kind of nonsense the Greens would come up with.

Oh,

didn't this month's issue of the NRA magazine cover that ?

Ralf

"Congestion charge? Sounds like the kind of nonsense the Greens would come up with."

Mike - its been widely reported here that other cities, and cities in other countries (New York, USA being one of them) are monitoring the situation in London to see if they should implement it there too.

Yoo have been varned!

Tony,
You say the signs are illegal. Are these signs illustrated in the new 2002 Regulations? Please clarify this.

I have not so far found any signs saying 'MacDonalds 50 Yards' or similar in the 2002 Regulations and certainly not 'MacDonalds 50 Metres'.

Directional Signs for pedestrians are covered in Schedule 7, Part VI, of the TSRGD 2002, on pages 264 to 269 of the new Regulations. They must be in miles or yards. If they are different from those authorised in the Regulations (which the ones on Oxford Street are), they must be authorised by the Secretary of State using a special and expensive application procedure. The Secretary of State may then make an Order.

In the famous Department for Transport letter from Mike Talbot, Head of Traffic Management Division, dated 16 July 2002, sent to all Chief Executives in England and Wales, he said that 'road' was defined as 'any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access' (that definition coming from Section 65, Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984).

This manifestly includes Oxford Street. Direction signs on Oxford Street, whether for traffic, cyclists or pedestrians, must conform with the law

I have not actually seen the signs in Oxford Street, but I have seen signs that match TOny's description all over Italy and France. If they are similar to the signs in Italy and France, then they would probably be classed as advertising hoardings, in which case is is arguable that it would be mandatory under 80/181/EEC that they carry distances in metric units.

re (Martin): "...classed as advertising hoardings, in which case it is arguable that under Directive 80/181/EEC they would have to show metric distances..."


So a roadside hoarding advertising Tescos, on entry into a town, would have to say something like:

"Tescos Superstore - 4km along A 1234" ?


Fortunately, 80/181/EEC is just a piece of paper, which means nothing until the British Parliament decides to implement a part of it. There is of course no British law or regulation requiring posters to use only metric units...though I accept there might be one day.

After all, we must 'modernise', mustn't we? (like that 'modern' country Germany, currently with 4.6 million unemployed and rising by 114 every hour)

<<
So a roadside hoarding advertising Tescos, on entry into a town, would have to say something like:

"Tescos Superstore - 4km along A 1234" ?
>>


Even though the Italians can learn a lot from us regarding road design and signposting, one thing that I noticed was that their equivalent of our "A" roads had legible distance markers every 100m and prominent distance markers every km (when they remembered to put them up!). I saw hoarding which, had they been in England, woudl have read

"Tesco's Superstore A4, km19.2"

(which would locate it somewhere near Maidenhead as the zero point for the A4 is Hyde Park COrner)

I saw some signs in the Algarve (Portugal) that were in yards! (I kid you not)

They tended to be to pubs, mind you, so I can imagine the sort that would read those signs!!!

Thank you for the above clarification. Please ensure that the sign owner is notified of the law and of any action that you undertake. Thank you.

The law being that if it is an adverising hoarding there is no requirement that it must be in imperial units.

From the preceding comments it is unclear whether there is a requirement that advertising hoardings must be in metric or whether the choice of unitsw it is up to the owner. In either respect if it is an advertising hoarding no offence is being committed by the sign being in metric units.

Advertising hoardings must of course comply with local planning regulations.

We don't plan an imminent conversion of the MacDonalds signs, certainly not without warning them first.

We shall write to them shortly advising them (a) of the law and (b) people's popular wish to read signs in their own language

Council of ARM

Tony, thank you for that clarification.
In response to Martin, we are not aware of any law that compels use of metric for street signs, hoardings or otherwise.

Likewise, as far as am aware, there is no law that compels the use of imperial measures on hoardings.

"Fortunately, 80/181/EEC is just a piece of paper, which means nothing until the British Parliament decides to implement a part of it. There is of course no British law or regulation requiring posters to use only metric units...though I accept there might be one day."

True, but the United Kingdom is obliged under Community law to implement all parts of 80/181/EEC.

"Likewise, as far as am aware, there is no law that compels the use of imperial measures on hoardings."

Also true and so ARM has no business removing metric hoardings given its usual defence of upholding the law.

>>> "Likewise, as far as am aware, there is no law that compels the use of imperial measures on hoardings".

But you said previously that there was a law compelling metric. Now you are saying there is not.

With regards to the advertising hoardings, it depends whether a sign saying "50 metres" is an "advertising" sign or a "distance" sign. I've not seen the signs in question, but am aware that authorities who previously said their signs were not caught by regulations on the grounds that they were "advertising", subsequently reversed their positions.