One subject of discussion on this board has been whether or not the estimate by ARM that metric conversion of road and pedestrian signs would cost £1 billion plus is an exaggeration or not. ARM has also consistently estimated that there may be well be over a million road signs in the country that would need converting.

On a recent journey by road from the outskirts of Salisbury to Stourbridge, a journey of 116 miles, it was decided to count how many distance and dimension signs could be seen along the roads. The roads covered were, respectively, the A 338, A 345, A 417, M 5 and A 491. The journey involved rural, urban and motorway driving.

Signs visible in either direction, or just off the main road and easily visible, were counted. Each distance on signs with more than one distance on them, e.g. a route confirmatory sign giving distances to 2, 3, 4 or 5 places, was counted.

The total number of dimension and distance signs counted was 836. That works out at about one every 244 yards.

The following types of signs were seen along the way (list not complete):

30 mph
40 mph
50 mph
60 mph
Speed limit 50 mph, 3/4 mile ahead
P 1/2 mile, 1/4 mile
Slippery road for 150 yards
Beware deer for 2 miles
Lane closed ahead, 800 yds, 600 yds, 400 yds, 200yds
Road works ahead, various distances
Give way ahead, various distances
Signs to villages off route
Route confirmatory signs
Motorway route confirmatory signs
Distances to motorway junctions, intersections etc., 1m, 1/2m, and 1/3 mile
Traffic lights, 200 yds, 100yds

Out of all the signs seen, 835 were Imperial and one metric (on the A 417: 'Prohibited length 8 metres at Lechlade').

Private signs were not counted. But several dozen were seen e.g. distances to pubs, garages and bed-and-breakfasts, acreages or sq. ft. of agricultural and industrial land respectively. Of several dozen seem, just two were metric.

*Every single one* of the 835 Imperial dimensions and distances seen on the Salisbury to Stourbridge journey would have to be changed if our roads and highways ever went metric - if not by a new sign, then at least by a sticker giving the distance/dimension/speed in metric.

It's an awesome thought.

Do we *really* need it?

It would be useful to know the number of miles of roads in the country. We can then calculate the total number of signs. We would need to make adjustments for motorways, town centres, etc.

<<if our roads and highways ever went metric.. >>

WHEN not IF.

It may be in 10years, 50years, 100years or even 1000years, but it WILL happen sometime!

What's to say that metric will be around in 1000 years time?

(or, in fact, "the world" )

The world may well not be, but if it is, I am sure we will be using metric. Why would there ever be a need to change from a system that the whole world uses?

It is no more likely that a new measuring system replaces metric, than there is of a new system of measuring time.

I don't agree that it can only be metric.
In fact the benefits of imperial might shine through in the end.
Or maybe there won't be a need for any measuring?

Or (here's the can of worms) maybe "plancks" day has yet to come?

If the government decides to ammend the TSRGD in the near future to formally legalise metres on pedestrian footpath signs, or signs where there no conceivable safety issues (this may well be provoked by continuing ARM activities) then there need be no real cost implications at all.

It would probably be done gradually by phasing in new signs in the manner we have already seen so many places.

With respect, "dream on"

although I do see a recoginition in your tone that you appear to agree there may be at least *some* safety issues.....

I was actually refering to the safety issues percieved by Government and Civil servants who may be inhibited from such ammenments on those grounds.

However I am not prepared (as are most pro-metrics) to argue or lobby for a change in road sign regulations if there is any chance that lives may be put at risk.

However the transition is handled it must put safety first and the principle of change second.

This is in contrast to ARM activists who are prepared to obliterate metric indications regardless of such considerations.

"This is in contrast to ARM activists who are prepared to obliterate metric indications regardless of such considerations"

Indeed.

"This is in contrast to ARM activists who are prepared to obliterate metric indications regardless of such considerations"

I, for one, am greatful that ARM exists.

Although I do keep thinking of a certain British computer firm whenever I see that name!

Hey folks, a scenario:

It's an "altertnative future" and all signs have been changed to metric, including the speed limits.
Mr Van driver is driving down the A40 and suddenly notices white marks on the ground.
Then it dawns on him, and realises a nasty looking camera machine to his right, coloured yellow and approaching quite quickly!
"I've already got 10 points" he says, "I'm NOT losing my license!"
He looks at the sign and sees "50km/h"
He quickly looks at his speedo.
"Damn pointer" , he says, "the damn thing is obscuring the speed markings in km/h, all I can see is the bold mph markings".
He continues to squint at the tiny km/h lettering while remembering the limit, what was it now? 50km/h?
Ready to hit the brakes he looks up to the window at the road, but its all too late!
A lorry from Belgium (2.1m tall) has already slowed right down.

The rest of the story we all know!

<<
"I've already got 10 points" he says, "I'm NOT losing my license!"
He looks at the sign and sees "50km/h"
>>

When South Africa went metric there were no dual unit speedometers or speed restriction signs. It was a matter of last years models (signs and cars)) being in mph and this years in km/h.

A year after South Africa went metric war broke out in the Middle East and a fuel crisis followed. In order to concerve fuel South Africa imposed draconian speed limits - in today's money, if you were stopped for speeding, you said "Goddbye" to £200 before asking the policeman how fast you were going.

I had a rather old car at the time and it did not take long to learn the conversions:

50km/h = 31mph
60km/h = 37mph
70km/h = 44mph
80km/h = 50mph

There was no need to go above 80km/h - that was the maximum speed limit during the fuel crisis.

At that time how many cars were on S.A. roads and how many miles of road was there?

Why is that important?

I'm on the safety angle thing

When South Africa went metric everyone had 5 cars.
That means there were about 188 million cars. And there were 50,000,000 miles of roads.

Conclusion: metrication in Britain would be far easier and cheaper!

I know it's friday but don't you think you've hit the bar a tad too early?

SteveH wrote

<<
I'm on the safety angle thing
>>

I don't follow - please explain.

with many more miles of road and many more drivers than SA a switch at a time where there are no draconian measures due to fuel crisis will be many times more risky than SA - as can even be seen in the tone adopted by "meter man"

<<
with many more miles of road and many more drivers than SA
>>

A far more important consideration is the number of drivers per unit length of road. After all, if just Wales were to go metric, the effect on the Welsh drivers would be the same as if the whole foteh United Kingdom were to go metric.

Hey! Don't pick on Wales!

Grrr!

Steve,

It is legal for the Welsh Assembley or the Scottish Parliament to decide to use metric road signs (apaprt form speed limits) without furhter reference to Westminster. It is also feasible for the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish Parliament to petition Westminster for the right to use metric speed limits within their respective areas of jurisdiction.

As you are probably aware, the population of Wales is considerably less than that of either England or Scotland. In my posting where I mentioned Wales, I did so to show how the population size is irrelevant to the driver's learning curve.

Note, I did not include Northern Ireland in my discussion above because:

1. They have a land border with a foreign metric country

2. The issue of metrication of road signs is likely to be tied up with sectarianism and I do not wish to address *that* problem.

<<
When South Africa went metric there were no dual unit speedometers or speed restriction signs. It was a matter of last years models (signs and cars)) being in mph and this years in km/h.
>>


So did everyone have to buy a new car that year? (Maybe the car manufacturers lobbied for this.)

No Bud, they memorised the mph to km/h conversion table (at least those conversions that mattered). It was a lot cheaper.

In the current UK situation one has to memorise:

30-50-80

30-50-80 means
30mph = 50km/h
50mph = 80km/h

Otherwise one will continue to drive at up to 60mph on a single carriageway and up to 70mph on a dual carriageway or motorway. (They would be signposted 100km/h and 120km/h respectively).

Bud, I forgot to mention that somebody in South Africa produced a small gearbox that attached to your speedometer. It sped the speedometer cable up by a factor of 1.6, thereby converting your mph speedometer into a km/h speedo. (You just had to remember that the "mph" on your speedo dial really meant "km/h").

And all these changes benefited the economy of SA I presume?