One of the much-trumpeted benefits for Lloyds Bank Customers who have a 'Gold Service' account is their free annaul diary. This is together with free travel insurance and other perks.

There was near-apoplexy amongst swathes of Lloyds Gold Service customers, however, when they opened their shiny new 2004 diaries to find the whole diary in metric - distances to and from various places in the U.K. in kilometres, to give but one example.

Very sensibly, the Bank has now written to the protestors and assured them in writing that next year Imperial units will be restored throughout. I will reproduce here the suitably grovelling letter from a senior red-faced Lloyds official in due course.

People power!


[Cue Lord Howe (wringing hands): "If only I'd exterminated Imperial measures when I was in government, but Margaret Thatcher wouldn't let me..."]

I checked the facts out with my local branch of Lloyds Bank (I also bank at Lloyds). I was informed that Gold customers do not get free diaries and was shown a leaflet listing the perks of each account type to prove it. I was told that Gold customers have to pay for their diaries

So, Tony, is the above totally true, or was your bank manager giving you a discretional extra perk?

I bank with LloydsTSB and am seriously looking at leaving them.

Not for some metric mistake but due to sacking loads of people and paying a pittance to some people in other countries to do the work.

This embarrasses me as a capitalist , however because I am a capitalist I can bank elsewhere.

I'm also quite lazy and I'm hoping that I won't just simply sit on my arse and forget about it.

re (Martin): "I checked the facts out with my local branch of Lloyds Bank (I also bank at Lloyds). I was informed that Gold customers do not get free diaries and was shown a leaflet listing the perks of each account type to prove it. I was told that Gold customers have to pay for their diaries

So, Tony, is the above totally true?"


REPLY: The information was given to me by a Lloyds account holder who has promised to send me the exchange of correspondence between him and Lloyds Bank. I shall reproduce it here as soon as I get it

So dear old Tony posts a great big victory hoo ha without actually being a customer himself, relying instead on a bit of hearsay from a friend clearly predudiced along similar lines.

We await the evidence with interest.

What makes me laugh is that Tony and his mates pretend they are not 'anti-metric', just 'pro-choice'

To me this suggests that they do not mind the use of metric as long as it is through choice and not through law.

As far as I am aware, there is no UK government or EU law that forced Llloyds bank to use metric in their diaries. They simply 'chose' to do so, for whatever reason.

What a bunch of hypocrites. Do you realise how pathetic your actions are?

He has a differing point of view to you - thus he must be "pathetic"

Good argument

Steve, What is pathetic is banging on about freedom of choice, but then kicking up a fuss whenever someone chooses to use metric! Do you not agree this is hypocritical?

Objection to state-enforced metrication is one thing, but why should people not have the right to use metric if they want to? Isn't that what Tony's whole argument consists of?

Steveh, you simply cannot deny Anonymous has a good point.

Tony claims to be pro-choice, but in fact he's anti-metric. He only claims to be pro-choice because he *knows* that when people are given the opportunity to choose most of them will opt for the system *HE* prefers, viz. imperial.

yeah, good point Anonymous

Freedom of choice, as long as you choose imperial

<<<There was near-apoplexy amongst swathes of Lloyds Gold Service customers>>>

LOL!

I'm happy with both systems.

I guess there is this natural fear of metricnessissity when all you hear about is imperial being outlawed bit by bit.

I'm sure if the state wasn't so hell bent on irradicating imperial Mr B would have a different opinion.

This happens a lot.

When the odds were against the Welsh language pre-1970's you commonly found welsh people deliberately speaking welsh in front of english people - it didn't make them anti-english.

Do you see my point?

re (Conrad): "Tony claims to be pro-choice, but in fact he's anti-metric. He only claims to be pro-choice because he *knows* that when people are given the opportunity to choose most of them will opt for the system *HE* prefers, viz. imperial"

REPLY:


* Over 90% of British people disapproved of Steve Thoburn being prosecuted for selling bananas by the pound, with less than 10% approving

* 86% of British people want road signs and footpath signs to remain in Imperial; only 8% want them to go metric (ICM survey, April 2002)

* In seven other surveys over the past 7 years, between 70% and 90% of the British people, of all ages, expressed preference in one form or another for Imperial over metric units.


The metric zealots posting on this board have sometimes unjustly scoffed at these results but they were all carried out independently by reputable market research organisations asking fair questions. The results have been scoffed at because they show that British people want to use the units they are familiar with.

I am 'pro-choice' in that I believe that the wishes of the British people in this matter should be respected. Metric zealots are anti-choice because they are so committed to metric standardisation and Imperial obliteration that they care not one whit what the public actually thinks or wants. Indeed, their stance is one of superiority, thinking and believing they know best.

If the British people did not overwhelmingly prefer Imperial, I would happily switch my attention to other issues. It is not hypocritical in the least to seek to defend usage of a good and familiar system of weights and measures against the wishes of a tiny political elite who use totalitarian methods to enforce their metric agenda.

Decisions as to whether to impose metric labelling on foods, impose fines on shopkeepers for selling in pounds, and wholesale costly conversion of road signs are not matters for individual choice/preference. The government decides these things on our behalf. I believe that the people should decide these things. In that respect, unlike metric zealots, I am a true democrat - and if people decided major issues by referendum rather than allow the political elite to make decisions for them, we'd all be a lot better off.

Finally, yes, of course, Lloyds *do* have the right to use metric units. They did so in ignorance in this year's diaries - not having appreciated the scale of British preference for their own system of weights and measures. They have wisely decided to respect the wishes of the majority [see research evidence above] and next year's diary will be restored to Imperial

"Finally, yes, of course, Lloyds *do* have the right to use metric units. They did so in ignorance in this year's diaries - not having appreciated the scale of British preference for their own system of weights and measures."

This just doesn't make sense! If they have exercised their right then what is your problem? Surely this 'market forces' thing will sort them out if loads of people oppose the move. The fact is that the vast majority of people don't give a toss, and the few extremists such as yourself who complain cause the policy to be changed.

re (Ross): "If they have exercised their right then what is your problem?"


REPLY: But people 'exercise their rights' every day. And anyone has the 'right' to try to persuade them to act differently.

For example, many years ago Shell were widely thought to have been oppressive over native people's rights in Nigeria in extracting oil. Arguably Shell were exercising their rights. But there was a boycott campaign which influenced them to behave differently.

Lloyds didn't act because of a lone complaint. Lloyds would not change their diaries back to Imperial unless it made them more, rather than less, popular


P.S. In using the word 'extremist', please refer to the 'mirror principle' discussed elsewhere in these discussion forums

"This just doesn't make sense! If they have exercised their right then what is your problem? Surely this 'market forces' thing will sort them out if loads of people oppose the move. The fact is that the vast majority of people don't give a toss, and the few extremists such as yourself who complain cause the policy to be changed."

Erm - they could have excerised their right to publish it fully in French. I'm not sure the customers collectively would like that, would you?

"Erm - they could have excerised their right to publish it fully in French. I'm not sure the customers collectively would like that, would you?"

No, indeed, they wouldn't. But that doesn't alter the fact that they had the right to publish their diaries in metric.

But that won't be geared toward the average customer. That's bad marketing

Now *both*?
Well that's a different story

Maybe if us pro-metric people were as extreme as the pro-imperial lot, we might write a few letters of complaint as well

Don't know about the rest of you but I've got better things to do with my time.

" ... a tiny political elite who use totalitarian methods to enforce their metric agenda."

Who might they be?

there would be a list!

I'd put europhile M.P.'s at the top though!

re: '... a tiny political elite who use totalitarian methods to enforce their metric agenda.' Who might they be?"

REPLY: The current 'New' Labour Cabinet. The European Commissioners. Top E.U. and U.K. officials, notably the top brass in the Department for Trade and Industry and the Department for Transport. Lord Howe. The top officials of LACOTS and the Consumers Association. Some of the top brass at the BBC. His Honour Mr Justice Laws. The leaders of the European Movement.

Many of these are arch-standardisers whose clear agenda is to weaken national independence and affinity and create a Euro-State with Euro Citizens. The notorious quotation from Brock Chisholm, the strange psychiatrist who became Director of the World Health Organisation, springs to mind:

"To achieve One World Government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, and national identification".

I would in this latter respect cross-refer you to the thread under 'Higher Education' where the 'Citizenship' programme of the E.U. and U.K. governments is under discussion - see the recent observations of PaulEOS

One of my colleagues on a recent contract was very pro-metric. He is also a confirmed Eurosceptic.

According to Tony Bennett's last post, the two should be incompatible. However John (yes that is his real name) is an engineer who uses measurements as part of his daily business, not a politian who talks about measurements, but does not actually use them.

re (Martin): "One of my colleagues on a recent contract was very pro-metric. He is also a confirmed Eurosceptic..."

REPLY: Martin, this is indeed a most interesting case.

I wonder if you could be so kind as to ask him three straightforward questions, and then post his answers in full on this board:

Question 1. Do you approve of greengrocers like Steve Thoburn being handed a criminal record because they prefer to serve their customers in the measurements all of them prefer, viz. pounds and ounces?

Question 2. Do you approve of Britain spending £1 billion on converting every road and pedestrian sign into metric?

Question 3: Do you believe that the U.K. should be able to run its own affairs?

"His Honour Mr Justice Laws"

Surely you mean "The Honourable Lord Justice Laws". Or is this an interim title, paving the way for the new EU-approved "Prodi VI 00-14B Great Judge Laws (UK South East region)"?

Tony Bennett wrote

<<
I wonder if you could be so kind as to ask him three straightforward questions, and then post his answers in full on this board
>>

I am no longer working with him so am unable to oblige.

Tony, if the man is a Eurosceptic AND pro-metric, the answers to your questions will almost certainly be as follows:

"Question 1. Do you approve of greengrocers like Steve Thoburn being handed a criminal record because they prefer to serve their customers in the measurements all (SIC) of them prefer, viz. pounds and ounces?"
NO, a fine will do.

"Question 2. Do you approve of Britain spending £1 billion on converting every road and pedestrian sign into metric?"
YES

"Question 3: Do you believe that the U.K. should be able to run its own affairs?"
YES

No prize today for our contestant.

The correct answers are:

#1. No. And there should be no other penalty either.

#2. No. We have far more important things to do with taxpayers money, or better yet the money saved by not doing this could be used to reduce taxes in future years (yeah, some hope!).

#3. Yes. Anything else would be unconstitutional.

I'm pro-metric and eurosceptic (not "anti" everything EU, but certainly against the new European constitution and still undecided about the euro)

In my opinion, we would be a lot more metric now if we had never been a member of the EU. Most of the public resistance to metric is because people assosciate metrication with stupid EU rules.

What percentage of the population know that Britain decided to go metric long before joining the EU? 5% maybe?

Andy: "What percentage of the population know that Britain decided to go metric long before joining the EU? 5% maybe?"

Brainwashed by UKIP indoctrination, that percentage will probably already have dropped to well below 1%.