The Deputy Editor of Britain's best-selling quarterly magazine. 'This England', wrote a letter on 9 December to Cheltenham Highways Department, drawing his attention to an illegal sign.

Typically, Council staff neither replied to nor acknowlegded his letter.

So he's written another one, reproduced below:

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Dear Mr Hieron,

On 9th December I sent a letter to the Highways Department via the Council offices in the Promenade. It has never been acknowledged.

I wish to draw your attention to an illegal mixed Metric/Imperial sign where the road narrows in Caernarvon Road, Up Hatherley, not far from Safeway/Morrisons supermarket. There are two signs equidistant from the hazard announcing "70 yards .... 2.3m".

The former refers to the distance away and the second to the width, which by my calculations is about 8 feet in real measurements.

Would you please confirm that you will change the latter to Imperial figures which most of the population can understand rather than the illegal Metric?

I look forward to your reply.

Peter Worsley
01242-537912 work (This England Offices)

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ARM stands ready to assist if the Council does not place itself within the law very swiftly

I thought to myself surely no ordinary person would actually go out of their way to complain that a sign was in metres rather than feet and inches.

Then I found the website of "This England" magazine, and all became clear...

http://www.thisengland.co.uk/

Andy - are you English?

I'm not.

But I see nothing wrong with being proud to be English or proud of English Heritage.


(so long as they promise to lose to Wales in the 6-nations)

Yes I am english, proud to be so, and proud of english traditions.

However, one trait of the English I do not like is the way that we look to the past too much and see anything new or foreign as bad. This "little englander" attitude would appear to be typified by this magazine.

re (Andy): "and see anything new or foreign as bad..."

REPLY: Er, like tea, coffee, curry, chicken tikka masala, bananas and pineapples. As for things 'new', look up the history of inventions and, surprise, surprise, you'll find Britain up there at No. 1. Funny that, we've been using those 'Fred Flintstone Units' all that time. The country which allegedly 'sees anything new or foreign as bad' went round the world trading, hence English being the 'lingua franca' of the world. Doesn't make us 'better', just a fact of life.

P.S. How many times more do British people travel abroad each year for their holidays compared with the French?

re (Andy): "...no ordinary person would actually go out of their way to complain that a sign was in metres..."

REPLY: "Zero Tolerance"

<<<How many times more do British people travel abroad each year for their holidays compared with the French?>>>

Yes they travel to seaside resorts in Spain to get drunk, abuse the locals and eat fish and chips in the local "english pub" while reading the Sun.

Nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but you should also be prepared to recognise its bad points and learn from other countries - something which I think too few of us do.

<<<re (Andy): "...no ordinary person would actually go out of their way to complain that a sign was in metres..."

REPLY: "Zero Tolerance">>>

Exactly.

Andy wrote

<<
Yes they travel to seaside resorts in Spain to get drunk, abuse the locals and eat fish and chips in the local "english pub" while reading the Sun.
>>

Andy - that is not possible. You cannot "read" the Sun - gawk at the pictures maybe!

<<<Yes they travel to seaside resorts in Spain to get drunk, abuse the locals and eat fish and chips in the local "english pub" while reading the Sun.>>>

You ***QUITE OBVIOUSLY*** have never been to the caribbean!


BTW - don't take this the wrong way - but what exactly *IS* a "Little Englander"?

Is there a positive aspect to the saying?

Or is it made up by those hostile to English Culture as a way of pretending that the views of many of the English run contrary to "progressive" european attitudes.

I'm genuinely interested.

Is it "tea and scones" pronouced 'sk own ss' in this case? Or is it like the 'N' word 'big ron' said on TV; ie just a negative insult?

I'd like to know

BTW - martin,

When I hear anyone belittle "The Sun" I always see them as one of those "liberal parents that name their son 'tarquin' types and see offence in words such as 'man-hole' and 'blackboard' "

Shudder to think that you might be part of that elite, eh?

<<<You ***QUITE OBVIOUSLY*** have never been to the caribbean!>>>

You seem to have a problem with generalisations. You know what I meant.

<<<BTW - don't take this the wrong way - but what exactly *IS* a "Little Englander"?

Is there a positive aspect to the saying?

Or is it made up by those hostile to English Culture as a way of pretending that the views of many of the English run contrary to "progressive" european attitudes.>>>

It means someone who thinks everything British is better than anything that Johnny Foreigner can come up with.

Yes it is negative.

<<You seem to have a problem with generalisations. You know what I meant.>>

Ok - I didn't realise you were being tongue-in-cheek
I tend to go to Ibiza every year, but although I drink a lot (its not possible not to) I don't tend to fall about throwing up and the usual stuff. You'd be surprised how small the minority is that do that - they tend to be on Sky One's "Ibiza uncovered" etc. What they don't tell you is that clubs tend to fill up at around 3 a.m. so there's little point in getting smashed.

<<It means someone who thinks everything British is better than anything that Johnny Foreigner can come up with.>>

English or British?
Or is there such a thing as a "Little Briton" (and pleeeease don't answer with "yeah but no but yeah but no but"!)
I can't see anything wrong with finding that "British is Best". I mean, I will be the first to say that I think that British HiFi is the highest quality in the world. On a totally different level I'd say that the British countryside is possible the most beautiful in the world. And I like it when other nations, especially the Americans, comment as such.

Can a "little englander" call himself such, I wonder? Are there any "little englanders" on this board who can say "I am a little Englander and I'm proud of it".

"Yes it is negative."

So its merely a "name call" then?
Ok - well that devalues it's impact a bit.

Time I think for a reprise of this famous Flanders and Swann song which perhaps says more than one realises about the English [CLUE: Irony]:

The English
(Flanders & Swann)

"It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad - It's just that they're foreign that makes them so mad"

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker as likely as not

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

The Scotsman is mean as we're all well aware
He's boney and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And hasn't got bishops to show him the way

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

The Irishman now our contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third

The English are moral the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood

The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can
He's little and dark more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp on his hat
And sings far too loud, far too often and flat

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

And crossing the channel one cannot say much
For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed

The English are noble, the English are nice
And worth any other at double the price

And all the world over each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice before hand which spoils all the fun

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad
It's just that they're foreign that makes them so mad
The English are all that a nation should be
And the pride of the English are Chipper and me

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

"The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can
He's little and dark more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp on his hat
And sings far too loud, far too often and flat "

Flippin Eck!

The English are daft, you should leave them alone
While us Welsh build a stadium, they pay for a dome
They're so damn tight fisted, well suspicious at best
And while we've got our Zeta, they've got Jo Guest.



(Hmmm, actually I'd prefer Jo Guest to Mrs "Pick-an-accent")

I don't like the term at all. it was the best word I could come up with to describe the kind of mentality I was talking about - and I think you know exactly what I mean by it even if it is a slightly difficult one to explain...

I would say its more of an English thing than British.

Of course there is nothing wrong with finding that British is best, and having a passion for what is British. What is wrong is when blindly believing everything British is better than everything foreign and refusing to admit that we can learn anything from other countries.

I put it all down to the fact that we once had such a huge influence on the world. Some people seem to be stuck in that colonial past and can't accept the fact that we are now just a relatively insignificant small european country.

Well I had a flick through a copy of This England and mainly saw beautiful and quaint pictures of English (I don't think it was British) countryside.

I remember a while ago they were part of the "Don't let Europe Rule Britainnia" - so they can't be that bad!!!


<<<I put it all down to the fact that we once had such a huge influence on the world. Some people seem to be stuck in that colonial past>>>>

Forgive me for asking but who, living today, is part of the colonial times?


<<and can't accept the fact that we are now just a relatively insignificant small european country. >>

I think that even GB-haters would have to admit that we are far more than "relatively insignificant".

And the most ardent pro-EU'er knows that the EU needs UK PLC far more than the UK needs the EU dinosaur.

<<<I think that even GB-haters would have to admit that we are far more than "relatively insignificant".>>>

Relative to how significant we have been in the past. It can't be denied that our influence on the world has diminished greatly.

<<<And the most ardent pro-EU'er knows that the EU needs UK PLC far more than the UK needs the EU dinosaur.>>>

I don't like the way the EU's going, but in its original format the UK does need to be part of it.

I would like to think that the UK could be like Switzerland as I admire the way they do their own thing, but pulling out of the EU would be a massive gamble.

"Relative to how significant we have been in the past. It can't be denied that our influence on the world has diminished greatly. "

Agreed - but that's more recently a result of the "Global Village PLC" scenario. Which also has its +ves and =ves.

<<I don't like the way the EU's going, but in its original format the UK does need to be part of it. >>

I agree - a free trade area for europe is sorely needed. Although the main intent was started of that way I find it bizzare that in its current incarnation (the 'EU') its *STILL* not done away with trade barriers and 'psuedo import/export restrictions'. Yet all the social and political stuff overtook the "free trade" ideas and now forms the main arena!

<<I would like to think that the UK could be like Switzerland as I admire the way they do their own thing, but pulling out of the EU would be a massive gamble.>>

Don't forget two things:

1) Norway (with its excellent quality of life) is also in that enviable situation
2) What's the continuing 'massive gamble' of staying in?


And don't buy the old "yeah but no but Norway has to follow all the rules the EU tells it to anyway" excuse! That's a poor excuse for having the "extreme version" !

Norway is a small country with an economy based on fishing and tourism. Very different to the UKs economy.

Don't they have a lot of gas and oil too?





And where do you think all those Fjord Mondeo's come from ;-)