If it makes so called ARM feel good to go around meddling with metric signs then so be it. Most pro-metrics don't really care that much.

All we care about is the prospect that the UK will see the light and metricate our road signs like the rest of the planet.

No amount of sneeking around fiddling with metric signs (legal or otherwise) will put off the day when they are legalised. Once that happens all the efforts of the metric sign vandals will have been in vein.

So Mr B, don't flatter yourself. You and your mates are not the enemy of metric signage. We have bigger fish to fry.

I totally agree that ARM are not the enemy of metric signs. I would say, if anything they help our cause.

If local authorities spend taxpayers money putting up signs, which then have to be torn down and replaced because the original units, that were considered most suitable by the authority in question, are technically illegal, what is the logical step for the government to take? Allow metric on signs!

So, ARM you have my full backing. I will have to draw the line at making a donation, but I certainly hope you continue your campaign.

Hear Hear! Me too.

("Rest of the Planet"? lol)

re (Andy): "If local authorities spend taxpayers money putting up signs, which then have to be torn down and replaced because the original units, that were considered most suitable by the authority in question, are technically illegal, what is the logical step for the government to take? Allow metric on signs!"


REPLY:

Come on, who spotted the obvious flaw in this nonsense? No-one?

Let's get the first bit accurate. It should read as follows:

"If local authorities spend taxpayers money putting up signs, which then have to be torn down and replaced because the original units, that were thought to be legal by the authority in question but were not authorised..."

We can now complete Andy's little lesson on logic as follows:

"If local authorities spend taxpayers money putting up signs, which then have to be torn down and replaced because the original units, that were thought to be legal by the authority in question but were not authorised, what is the logical step for the government to take? Just allow imperial on signs!

After all:

(1) 100% of people understand imperial and relatively few metric, and

(2) any way 86% of people prefer imperial as against only 8% preferring metric (2002 survey by ICM) and

(3) it would waste about £1 billion, which could be much better spent on other things like e.g. relieving poverty. And *that's* logical!"

<<< what is the logical step for the government to take? Just allow imperial on signs! >>>

er, isn't imperial already allowed on signs?!

Its metric thats ISN'T allowed.

<<<100% of people understand imperial and relatively few metric>>>

ROTFL! In the real world (which I appreciate, you know little about) this is far from true.

re (Andy): "<<<100% of people understand imperial and relatively few metric>>> ROTFL! In the real world (which I appreciate, you know little about) this is far from true"


REPLY: Are you claiming that Driving Instructors are allowing people to pass their driving tests without understanding what

" Give Way 100 yards " means, or
" Low Bridge 14' 3" or
" Road Works 1/2 Mile Ahead "?

Yes or no?

P.S. I am a car driver in the real world. Are you?

<<<REPLY: Are you claiming that Driving Instructors are allowing people to pass their driving tests without understanding what

" Give Way 100 yards " means, or
" Low Bridge 14' 3" or
" Road Works 1/2 Mile Ahead "?

Yes or no?>>>

A driving instructors job is to teach someone to drive not teach them measurements.

On my driving test the only use of measuremetns (apart from speed limits obviously) they tested me on, was stopping distances - done in either metres or feet (I believe metres being the predominant one now)

re (Andy): "A driving instructor's job is to teach someone to drive, not teach them measurements"

REPLY:

Driving examiner to driver on arrival at test: "Don't worry about understanding all those road signs, son, I'm not going to bother with any of those - just need to see if you can drive this motor OK, that's all"

Tony - please explain to me exactly where in the driving test you are required to show familiarity with miles, yards and feet.

re (Andy): "Tony - please explain to me exactly where in the driving test you are required to show familiarity with miles, yards and feet"

REPLY: You are required to be familiar with the meaning of all road signs, as illustrated in the Highway Code.

The driving test examiner could ask you about the meaning of any one of them.

P.S. What proportion of British road users would you say could not understand: ' Width Restriction - 6' 6" '?



Or ' London - 25 miles '?

<<<The driving test examiner could ask you about the meaning of any one of them.>>>

Knowing what a sign means is not the same as having a feel for the distance stated.

<<<What proportion of British road users would you say could not understand: ' Width Restriction - 6' 6" '? >>>

I would say the number not knowing what ' and " means would be low - maybe 5%?

The number unable to easily visualise this width would be higher (although 6 foot 6 is a convenient one since everyone knows this is the height of a tall man - something more random and more people would struggle)

PS By the way I am not suggesting that 100% of people would be more comfortable with the figure in metres - just that the number of people more comfortable with metres is increasing and the number more comfortable with feet/inches is decreasing. I am not saying that we have reached the stage yet where more are comfortable with metres, but we must be almost there.

<<P.S. What proportion of British road users would you say could not understand: ' Width Restriction - 6' 6" '?
>>

Would anyone but a lorry driver care? Even the most excessive of American SUVs would merely have to fold its mirrors to qualify.

<<<Would anyone but a lorry driver care? Even the most excessive of American SUVs would merely have to fold its mirrors to qualify.>>>

That is true of course. Drivers completely ignore all height, width and weight restrictions unless they are driving something very large.

That is why there have been no real problems for younger drivers understanding signs in Britain
- the feet and inches signs are ignored
- yards are more or less metres

The only ones you need to know are miles and mph.

<<A driving instructors job is to teach someone to drive not teach them measurements. >>

With respect its part of the teaching of road signs.

Steve

I have to point out that you claim elsewhere that kids are taught imperial at school..... Are you suggesting that they forget all about it and driving instructors then have to teach them all over again?

:-)

I got the double white line thing wrong.

In my nervousnous I thought the book was in black and white and said "no parking" !

UK law requires that UK-registered vehicles that are more than 3m high have a notice that is visible to the driver giving the vehicle's height in Imerial units (metic optional). The asame law applies to foreigh-registerd vehicles that are over 4m in height.

This law is, I believe, unenforceable as it refers to the height of the vehicle which is not permitted under the EU directive (unless the Imperial unit is a supplementary measurement).

People don't live in Rule Books, Martin

Martin, is the conversion factor between feet and metres not defined somewhere in UK law? If it is, then the law should be valid because the reference to feet in the law is a well-defined quantity.
Or am I not understanding this law properly?

<<refers to the height of the vehicle which is not permitted under the EU directive>>

Please bear in mind that I think that the UK has its own laws, rules etc as well as EU directives.

I believe there are a load of people that sit in the House of Commons who are paid to make new laws.

"P.S. I am a car driver in the real world. Are you? "

When I learnt to drive, everything was in metric. And that was several years ago in the UK. I started back in 1986, took a break of a few years, and started again in 1997. The only thing not in metric were the references to miles. I had 3 different driving instructors altogether, all of whom used metres and never used feet or yards on the road at all.

Those who learnt to drive many many years ago, the old dinosaurs like TB, no doubt were taught everything in ancient imperial roman units.

But today driving instructors use metric, except for miles because we are still stuck in roman times on that.

"Made up story"

Quite funny though, I must admit.