Is it still possible to buy new cookery books that only use imperial units? If not, has anyone given any thought to producing one? I am almost sure that recipes would be exempt from the current draconian metric legislation (and if they're not, I'd want to hear a very good reason why). On principle, I refuse to buy cookbooks that use only metric units and have no intention of trading in my Marks & Spencer's British customary weights for metric ones but I'd like to go a step further in my personal campaign without having to resort to US recipes, which often use volume (cups) over weight (lbs/ozs) (I have nothing against this but I don't have the right measuring equipment).

just a thought - could BWMA produce one - for sale for funds. recipes from members and patrons, etc.

My thoughts were along those very lines. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

I don't speak foreign languages - the way we're going, we may as well have Canadian style bi-lingual notices etc. I would love to see some solely imperial recipe books produced, but first we must plan on what to given the recipes for. I'll think up some ideas, but we will need our allies to join in on this.

BWMA produced a leaflet a couple of years ago, entitled New Guidelines for Food Writers, which was sent to most of the food writers and publishers of the time, explaining why it made sense to use Imperial measures. Quite a few of them - including Anthony Worrell Thompson - wrote back expressing their support. There may be copies still available to send to writers of all-metric recipes.

Incidentally, I have a set of American measuring cups I bought in new york. What's nice about them is that an American cup is half a (US) pint, which at 8fl oz a cup, is also half a pound of water - the US version of the system is quite consistent in that way.

I am sure that a British fluid ounce of water weighs an ounce and that a US fluid ounce of wine weighs an ounce - conversion tables suggest it (how reliable, I'm not sure - they may try to look more researched by saying that a British gallon of water weighs 10.002lb). I've come across an American anti-metric advocat somewhere, saying that they should adopt the British fluid ounce and that that way, a US pint of water would weigh exactly a pound.

As far as I'm aware all cookery books are in imperial only or imperial/metric. Goddess of the mixing bowl Delia smith doesn't mention one metric measure on her TV programme.
"Balance" weighing scales from Argos (a metric-enthusiast company) only weigh in lb/oz (you can send away for the equiv metric weights).
The only rule I've heard is that when you start cooking something from a book you should always use metric OR imperial and never mix the two (That's what that Gary Rhodes bloke says).

I'm afraid you haven't looked hard enough, Steve. Quite a number of recent cookery books (by Nigel Slater, Nigella Lawson and Gordon Ramsay to name just a few) all contain metric-only recipes. As a result, I refuse to buy them. And I can't be the only one...

I'm no cook but I picked up the several books in my local Tescos (which is doing a good job of keeping imperial alive) and they all had both / or imperial. Maybe I was lucky and didn't pick up the faulty ones!

SteveH

I have noticed that in Colour Supplements the recipes are often only in metric. A pity, because they often look quite appetising.
Incidentally, on the recent TV programme Come Dine With Me, Channel 4 's website. I noticed that they we evenly split between all Imperial and all Metric - apart from a few that gave no quantities at all!
It would be nice to get a BWMA cookery book, all in Imperial, and would suggest that all members put forward a recipe and all honorary members - like Jilly Cooper and Anthony Worral-Thomson are approached, too.

You could always buy a facsimilie of Mrs Beeton's Cookbook (1st Edition). It might be a little old-fashioned though.

There are plenty of cookery books out there with imperial, or imperial and foreign.

Personally I prefer to have the choice of either.
Then no-one is left out.

Blimey! This was a good thread-resurrection!

The original Mrs Beaton came out in 1861.

My 1962 edition is just about all in imperial, apart from a "metric equivalent" table on page 73. Second hand bookshops may still be able to source copies.

Strangely, it manages to use a decimal point in the metric/imperial weight conversions, but it also includes "1/2 imperial pint = 2 21/25 decilitres"!

<<<There are plenty of cookery books out there with imperial, or imperial and foreign.>>>

Don't you mean metric and foreign?!

Depends how old you are, but as someone of only 30, I would use the word 'foreign' to describe something I have not learnt and have no experience of.

<<< 2 21/25 decilitres >>>

Now that is as foreign to me as fluid ounces

Jeesh!

<<shakes head>>

Time to go out and find a dose of reality again, Andy!

"Le Tesco" perhaps.

or "Le Stan Smith's Bootcherie"

or "Le M25, 25 mille tailback"

or "Le 30cm pizza"

Right - end of list. We all know it by now.

Andy

Yeah, I know that what I posted was confusing, but don't really believe that it was Imperial measurements fault. I meant

"2 decilitres and 21 over 25 parts of a decilitre"

Computers are so good at representing fractions - aren't they.

Nearly as good as printers in 1962. They used the "Easy to use" fractional system to print the conversion as

First digit (full sized) 2

Then 2/5 (numerator above denominator)

Then 1/5 (numerator above denominator)

I really have tried to post this as it appears in the book on this site - and can't get it to appear the way I want. Closest I can get is

2 decilitres and

21
__

25 decilitres

Of course, we could use the normal convention of representing 1/2 pint as (approx) 284ml rather than trying to introduce fractions, but, as the imperial side continue to say, fractionality is important....

<<<Time to go out and find a dose of reality again, Andy!>>>

Steve, I never said miles or inches were foreign to me. I said pounds and ounces were. I have NEVER used them for anything, and I would assume that most people of my age group would be the same.

When buying fruit and veg in a supermarket, I buy by the piece, or using metric. In the real world it is very easy to get by without knowing anything at all about lbs/oz.

Yeah ok andy.

[shakes head in hands]

Whilst we are talking about recipes in Imperial, does anyone know where I can buy a non-metric cooker? We are about to re-do the kitchen and my cooker, although perfect, may get to the stage of needing spares which are no longer available.
The maddening thing is that manufacturers all do Imperial for the American market, but seem to think that we might prefer foreign.

<<<Whilst we are talking about recipes in Imperial, does anyone know where I can buy a non-metric cooker? We are about to re-do the kitchen and my cooker, although perfect, may get to the stage of needing spares which are no longer available.
The maddening thing is that manufacturers all do Imperial for the American market, but seem to think that we might prefer foreign.>>>

Patricia, I don't know where you have been hiding for the last few decades, but I think you'll find that metric cookers are what virtually everyone uses in Britain these days. I've never seen a non-metric one.

If you would prefer a foreign one, by all means order one from the States. Otherwise I'm sure you could get used to using the temperature scale that everyone else uses.

You appear to be attacking someone for wanting to use Fahrenheit on her cooker.

Great.

How about attacking me for wanting to learn Welsh? After all, its a miniscule language when compared to the whole of the UK.

Well done for managing to misunderstand my post again as usual.

I said there was nothing wrong with wanting to use Fahrenheit, but was merely pointing out that the system she attacked as being "foreign" was actually the norm, whereas the system she wanted was "foreign"

<<
Whilst we are talking about recipes in Imperial, does anyone know where I can buy a non-metric cooker?
>>

In what sense do you mean non-metric?

1. Shows temperatures in Fahrenheit
2. Has dimensions that are a round number in Imperial rather than metric units.

From what I have seen, you have a choice:

1. European cookers that are 600mm deep and/or that fit into a 600mm wide kitchen units, show temperature in Celsius and, if electric, use 230V.

2. A US cooker built to US standards (Fahrenheit), 115V and goodness knows what dimensions for kitchen units.

If your kitchen is in the UK, I would suggest that you go for option (1).

>>>>>>
and I would assume that most people of my age group would be the same.
<<<<<<


Assumption is the brother (or is that mother) of all c*ckups! ;)

Anyone writing a recipe book with imperial only will be limiting its circulation to British readers or the odd few people abroad who still prefer them. They won't be much use in the American market.

Do one in metric and it will sell to an unlimited market in any English speaking country or even in countries where English is a common second language (i.e. most of the world).

Still if you are only doing it for love.

Delia Smith can afford to buy a football club.

Delia Smith can afford to buy a football club.

<<<Delia Smith can afford to buy a football club.>>>

and where are they in the Premiership table?

If she didn't insist on using imperial measurements it might be a different story

;-)

"Lets be 'aving you" - she shouted as the striker hits a 10 metre attempt at goal.

Nope - doesn't have a ring to it!

;-)

<<From what I have seen, you have a choice:

1. European cookers that are 600mm deep and/or that fit into a 600mm wide kitchen units, show temperature in Celsius and, if electric, use 230V.

2. A US cooker built to US standards (Fahrenheit), 115V and goodness knows what dimensions for kitchen units.
>>

The standard US range is 30" wide, depth varies from 25-28" for free-standing, slide-in units seem to run 26" depth. There are "apartment-sized" stoves, 24" wide, and double-oven models 36-42" wide, but all of those are uncommon. (These are nominal dimesions; typically, they will be about 1/8" shy to fit openings and be adjusted with trim rings)

US homes have two phase reversed 115 v lines and neutral for power. Heavy loads (like range elements) are wired line-to-line for 230 V; however, accesories like clocks, lights, fans in the range are probably wired line to neutral for 115 V. Possibly, an electrician could rewire the minor loads via a transformer.

Still, it seems a lot of work to have degrees F. My oven dial is 50 degrees off anyway and I rely on an English/metric oven thermometer.

"""Still, it seems a lot of work to have degrees F. My oven dial is 50 degrees off anyway and I rely on an English/metric oven thermometer."""


My oven once had markings in degrees Celsius until I scratched them off and added Fahrenheits. My Fahrenheits are perfectly accurate, thus I doesn't need an English/metric oven thermometer. I wanted to buy a knob with Fahrenheits on it, but they aren't for sale in the UK. So I made my own.

I even went to a junk store that sells old refurbished equipment. They had one but it was a different mounting style then mine and couldn't use it, plus the bloke wouldn't sell it to me unless I bought the whole oven. I would have, but in my flat the landlord would have had a hissy if I tried to bring drag it up. Then there was the problem of the length of the oven was an inch size and it wouldn't fit into the metric space that the present oven fits into.

Even though our homes are advertised in imperial, they are built in metric. No one really notices because all the appliances of today are metric too and they fit precisely into the metric space designed for them. It would make more sense to just do it all in metric, but some of us are odd and we like to add a touch of confusion. Keeps us all on our toes.

Too bad I ruined my knob, or we could have had an exchange, my Celsius for you Fahrenheit.

Oh well, then again yours is in error and I can't stand it when imperial is in error. Which sad to say is more often then not.

BTW, I'm SteveH's evil twin in case we haven't met.

<<Oh well, then again yours is in error and I can't stand it when imperial is in error. Which sad to say is more often then not.
>>

Well, it could be that the knob is right (they all look alike) and the sensor is wrong. In any case, with my dual unit oven thermometer, I can accomodate English or metric recipes (metric recipes are pretty rare here.

Erin - why are you posting under my name but spelled backwards?

You usually only do this when you have lost the debate - yet this thread is very old.

If you don't respond then I'll assume that you've lost the debate again, if that's ok.

<<
In any case, with my dual unit oven thermometer, I can accomodate English or metric recipes (metric recipes are pretty rare here.
>>

Do you mean UK English or American English? When cooking, the two are quite different. UK cookery books used to use pounds and ounces whereas US cookery books use cups. Also, the concept of a "stick of butter" is unknown in the UK. In addition, the US pint and the UK pint are quite difference (even though the respective fluid ounces are similar).

In short, cookery is one area where Britian and the US are two nations divided by a common language. (Churchill).

No, I meant US volumetric cooking (cups and the like). I do have an electronic scale that lets me weigh things in english/metric, and measuring cups, spoons, etc all tend to have metric measure as well as US fluid capacity. Occasionally, I will get a metric recipe from somewhere and try it.

I don't know if I've cooked an English recipe. I may have used wrong size cups and spoons to measure; I know there is a difference, but I'm not sure precisely what it is. As you said, American measure rarely uses weights for food as prepared, although larger recipes state how many pounds of raw, unprepared ingredients to buy, meat, potatoes, etc.

Actually, UK and US cooking units are not all that different. If a UK cookery book used pounds and ounces, an American cook would understand it (but have to go through the inconvenience of weighing on a scale rather than measuring in cups). Cups are a standard unit used all over... don't you drink a cup of milk each morning? If you use that cup to measure cups for your recipe, you won't be too far off. And saying "stick of butter" is like saying "packet" of something. It is an arbitrary size that is given a special name by consensus of manufacturers.

Pounds and ounces are no problem with a scale.

British and US fluid measure are different. The "cup" doesn't seem precisely defined in British cooking, or, if it is, it is 10 Imp. oz. Also their measuring spoons are different. I'm not sure they call it a Tablespoon, but the larger one appears to be 20 mL, not 15 mL. (But that is piecing together info from British and Australian sites. While they both used Imperial measure, at this level, there may be differences.)

Since the stick of butter is precisely 1/2 cup, and is marked in teaspoons and tablespoons on the waxed paper wrapper, it is not arbitrary at all, and fits precisely with other US volumetric cooking measure. I don't know how Brits measure butter.

''''Cups are a standard unit used all over... don't you drink a cup of milk each morning?''''

In the United States a cup isn't just what you drink your milk out of, that may or may not hold a cup of milk. A cup is exactly 8 fl. oz. My small cups I drink milk from are closer to 10 oz, my child's plastic cup is more like 6 oz. My cooking measures are exactly 8 fl. oz per cup; the cup is a defined unit, not an approximate amount.

I always assumed that the UK cup was half a pint or 2 gills (10 oz.) and therefore 2 oz or 4 Tablespoons larger than a US cup; but with all the use of the pint in the UK I wasn't sure if they really use cups or not. I know we in the US seem to prefer cups, then quarts and then gallons. I've seen many US recipes that as for 2 cups or 4 cups of ingredients but rarely 1 or 2 pints.

US & UK teaspoon is about 5 ml
US & UK Tablespoon is about 15 ml

2 teaspoon per tablespoon
2 tablespoons per ounce
8 ounces per cup
2 cups per pint
etc. etc.

US measuring cups list 8 oz. cups and fractions a cup, with ounces usually next to that. Note, our standard household kitchen dry measuring cups are actually liquid units; not the dry unit equivalent. Actually I don't think many people in the US are even aware that a pint of blueberrys is a different pint from a pint of milk.

Is the cup used as an exact measure in the UK? For that matter does the gill actually exist as a used measure, or simply some archaic relic?

I agree with most of that, but there are 3 teaspoons in a Tablespoon (US). An exception to the usual 2:1 ratios of Imperial.

6 teaspoons = 2 Tablespoons = 1 fl. oz = 1/8 cup

<<I agree with most of that, but there are 3 teaspoons in a Tablespoon (US). >>

Correct, sorry that was a dumb over site I made.

I even put the approximate amount in ml as 5 and 15, I don't know how I made that over site.

Thank you for correcting it.

(I cook a lot! I know better than to make that mistake!)

Darn spell check! Obviously it should say 'oversight' above. I think I need to learn proof read!

<<
Is the cup used as an exact measure in the UK? For that matter does the gill actually exist as a used measure, or simply some archaic relic?
>>

The cup has hardly ever been used as a measure. The gill was used a cetrain amount, but it is now an archaic relic. Until about ten or fifteen years ago the gill had an important legal function - whiskey was served in units of one sixth of a gill in England and one fifth of a gill in Scotland.

Of course, one could not calculate how much alcohol you were actuallyu getting. With the advent of serving whiskey in 25ml or 35ml tots, one can easily calculate the volume of alcohol - whiskey is typically 405 (by volume) alcohol - the exact percentage is pritned on the label (a legal requirement in Europe), so a 25ml tot contains 10ml alcohol or one unit of alcohol.

My pint of cider is about 5.5% alc

Martin

Can I try your 405% whisky!

The best pubs in Scotland served 1/4 gill, decent pubs served 1/5, and the 1/6 gill was confined to Aberdeenshire and England.

Amongst Scots, Aberdonians are noted for their total meanness!

why aren't they called aberdeenians?

Steve

I have honestly no idea!

People from Aberdeen are called Aberdonians. The local football team are nicknamed "The Dons"

People from Dundee are called Dundonians. One of the local football teams are nicknamed "The Dees"

I don't understand it either. I just hope that the other (better) Dundee team does the business tomorrow! I have one ticket. You will know why my household is disappointed with this situation!