I read an article a few days ago in The Times in which they reported a grocer somewhere in the South of England who had initiated a club for his customers. For a £1 lifetime membership fee, members will be able to request goods in Imperial measures and the vendor will weigh and price them using Imperial measures, although due to the absence of shillings and old pence, goods are paid for and change given in mtric Sterling currency.

It appears that by forming a club, the grocer is able legally to trade with his "membership" in whatever units he likes.

Apparantly the uptake of memberships is a huge success with the majority of his customers becoming members.

I think that one died a death - it could not legally be a club so once the legal situation was realised, he quietly cancelled his "club" and resumed trading in a normal manner.

The club concerned is Gemini Fishmongers, of which I am a member (Member No. 789 - my membership number is the last three numbers of my 'phone no., the same for all customers - oops, sorry, *members*).

It's the best wet fish shop for kilometres around and is in the centre of the large village of Codicote, Hertfordshire.

The owner, Mr Halsted - oops, sorry, club Chairman - is 54 and told local newspapers: "I am taking a stand because I believe it's the right thing to do for Britain and for my customers" [I think he meant to say: 'members'].

A recent article for the 'Mail on Sunday' said: "Enforcement officers have visited...but have taken no action against it".

A victory for English common sense, tolerance, and the precious English attitude of 'live-and-let-live' over jackbootism

Here is the leaflet on Gemini Fishmongers, produced by Active Resistance to Metrication in July 2002:

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“It’s a Club, not a Shop”

One man’s way of carrying on selling in pounds and ounces

In a Home Counties wet fish shop, a family carries on the tradition of selling fish in pounds and ounces - a natural, human system of weights, not a recently-invented artificial one. They carry on another vital British tradition - intelligently resisting foreign powers. They changed their wet fish shop into a wet fish club. We’ll call the shop ‘Quayside Fishmongers’, though that’s not it’s real name. The family do not seek publicity. The family changed to metric scales when the new rules came in but found customers much preferred to buy in pounds and ounces. They got the idea from the Matalan retail outlet (now with 9 million members) which also has a membership scheme.

How the scheme works

On the left-hand side of the shop is a notice:
“Fish sold only to members of Quayside Imperial Club”. The family will only sell fish to their club members. The shop has hundreds of loyal customers, and already has over 600 members. On boards outside and inside the shop are the prices of an impressive range of wet fish, all given exclusively in pounds, i.e. no prices in kilograms just to confuse you.

How do you join the Quayside Imperial Club?

If you want to buy fish and are not a member, you put your membership fee of 1p. in a charity box on the windowsill. You then become a member by writing your name and address in a book, numbered from 000 to 999. You enter your details against the same number as the last three digits of your telephone number (so no-one forgets their membership number!). It does mean that a few people share the same membership number, but that’s a practical point of no importance. Having duly entered your name and address in the book, you are then free to buy some of the best wet fish on sale in the British Isles.

What about customers who don’t want to join the Quayside Imperial Club?

There have been two so far. Both have now joined the club since they can’t find an alternative supply of good wet fish in the area.

What do the Trading Standards Department make of the scheme?

They visited the shop a few months ago and were clearly bemused when the family said: “It’s a Club not a Shop”. The Council concerned has a ‘softly, softly’ approach to ‘Imperial traders’ and have not yet prosecuted anyone.

Is this really legal?

The family has taken advice about their club and they are satisfied that the law does indeed allow them to supply wet fish to a members’ club. The advice also suggests that virtually any product could be ‘sold’ to ‘customers’ who are a members of a club. It’s a way of selling in pounds and ounces that’s been running successfully since 1 January 2000, when the government tried to make selling in pound and ounces illegal. That’s an impressive 937 days on the date of publication of this leaflet.

FURTHER INFORMATION:

This leaflet is published by Active Resistance to Metrication, 66 Chippingfield, HARLOW, Essex, CM17 0DJ Tel: 01279 635789 (ask for Tony Bennett). We’ll give the ’phone number of family only to people making genuine enquiries about operating similar schemes

Printed & Published by Active Resistance to Metrication (ARM)

26 July 2002

<<<I think that one died a death - it could not legally be a club so once the legal situation was realised, he quietly cancelled his "club" and resumed trading in a normal manner.>>>

A combination of "wishful thinking" and "jumping the gun" there martin!
And I do hope you don't officially complain on behalf of nobody!

If you visit http://www.aboutfood.co.uk/articles/organisations/organisation-0016514.html you will see that Gemini Fish Supplies of 90 High Street, Codicote, HITCHIN, Hertfordshire SG4 8XE is advertised as a retailer, wholesaler, shop, speciality foods: fish. There is no mention of the word "club" anywhere on that website.

Tony

Last time this nonsense was posted, you originated it.

I posted some reasons that I suggested were compelling that Gemini Fishmongers were not a legally recognised private members club.

You didn't reply then, but you are now posting suggesting that they are actually recognised as a private members club.

You give your membership number, but do not state if the club has an AGM, whether you have any say in the running of the club, or whether it is only a legal fiction to avoid comliance with the law....

Still waiting....

Considering it being Christmas and all that - shall we "snitch" on them to the authorities?

With any luck - and if we do it quick enough - we might get a raid going tomorrow - the 24th! And that would be a marvellous Christmas present!




And, yes, I'm being sarcastic.

re (Beranger): "You didn't reply then, but you are now posting suggesting that they are actually recognised as a private members club. You give your membership number, but do not state if the club has an AGM, whether you have any say in the running of the club, or whether it is only a legal fiction to avoid comliance with the law..."

REPLY:

1. I confirm I am a member of the 'Gemini Club'.

2. The lifetime joining fee was 1p, which had to be placed into a charity box. I swelled with civic pride when I rounded that up to whole £1 and placed my pound coin into the box.

3. Their wet fish is of great quality.

4. The bloke who signed me (Cap'n Birds' Eye e's called on account of his long beard) up is a nice bloke and so are the rest of his family/friends

5. They have a sense of pride in things Britsih and English

6. They do not take kindly to the elite politicians of Europe and Britain, and their willing tools the Trading Standards Officers, trying to make the criminals for doing what their customers want

7. They haven't yet sent me a copy of the Club constitution or invited me to an AGM. But then, I can't say I'm too bothered about that

8. I hear their membership is on the up and up

9. Trading Standards Officers in the area seem to have got better things to do than adopt a zero tolerance policy of preventing the good folk of the Codicote area from buying good quality wet fish by the pound

10. Merry Christmas from a Sassenach!

P.S. How's the European Union been doing with the Scottish fishing industry since they took over the running of the North Sea from Britain on 1 January 1973? 32 whole years, eh? - they must have changed things one 'elluva lot by now

Tony

Just to jog your memory, here's a copy of my post made on September 2 2004


Re: 'Club not a Shop' - Mail on Sunday Report


Here's some case law to mull over:-

From O'Keefe's "The law of Weights & Measures"

<<Sales in clubs

The supply of goods to members by a private members’ club is not a sale for the purposes of this Act but a sale to non-members, even if unauthorised, is such a sale. In Graff v Evans (1882) 8 QBD 373 at 378 (cf Newman v Jones (1886) 17 QBD 132) it was held that where intoxicating liquor, which is bona fide the property of a club, is supplied to a member of the club who pays for it, the transaction, though resembling a sale, is not a sale within the meaning of the Licensing Acts. In substance, the member is consuming his own property, and the mode of payment is a matter of internal arrangement regulated by the rules of the club. On the other hand, a member of a proprietary club may, in similar circumstances, be a party to a contract of sale; see Baird v Wells (1890) 44 Ch D 661.>>

From Butterworths "Trading & Consumer Law"

<<(2) Gaff v Evans (1882) 8 QBD 373

This decision explained the ‘domestic’ nature of members’ clubs, any ‘profit’ on the supply of liquor by the club to a member in fact being a surplus belonging to the members themselves. (In the case of such unincorporated associations, in law the assets of the club are already owned by the members and any ‘profit’ made in the supply of liquor etc is normally not taxable for similar reasons, the so called ‘principle of mutuality’.)

See also Cahalne v London Borough Council (1985) 149 JP 561, QBD, where a purported ‘video club’ was held not to be a ‘club’ in the above sense. Per curiam:

‘If the only evidence of a club was, as it seems to have been, these advertisement pamphlets and that the trading standards officer had completed what was termed a membership card, it seems to me that that would not be sufficient to raise any presumption that this was a club. On the face of it ... it was a colourable device to call it a club. There was no evidence that any committee was involved or that there were any rules or that there was any procedure for joining. All that was being done in terms was to hand over to somebody who came in from the street, prepared to pay the necessary fee, the video cassette they wished to take away on hire.’>>

And your recent reply with my comments added

REPLY:

1. I confirm I am a member of the 'Gemini Club'.

I'm a member of my local Video Club. It is not a private members club

2. The lifetime joining fee was 1p, which had to be placed into a charity box. I swelled with civic pride when I rounded that up to whole £1 and placed my pound coin into the box.

If it is a private member's club, even £1 is a total bargain to buy ownership of the assets of the club (the fish, the scales, the premises etc) I thought that property was expensive down south :-)

3. Their wet fish is of great quality.

I'm sure it will be. It's a long way for me to go to get fish though

4. The bloke who signed me (Cap'n Birds' Eye e's called on account of his long beard) up is a nice bloke and so are the rest of his family/friends

Wasn't Cap'n Birdseye an American?

5. They have a sense of pride in things Britsih and English

Wasn't Cap'n Birdseye an American? :-)

6. They do not take kindly to the elite politicians of Europe and Britain, and their willing tools the Trading Standards Officers, trying to make the criminals for doing what their customers want

Seriously, you are telling me that they have given away ownership of their shop (to the members of their club) to avoid compliance with the law of the land?

7. They haven't yet sent me a copy of the Club constitution or invited me to an AGM. But then, I can't say I'm too bothered about that

As a member, that is your choice. But does the constitution of the club not specify how notice to members should be given?

8. I hear their membership is on the up and up

I've not heard of any similar "clubs" starting

9. Trading Standards Officers in the area seem to have got better things to do than adopt a zero tolerance policy of preventing the good folk of the Codicote area from buying good quality wet fish by the pound

In the same vein, ARM seem to be turning a blind eye to all the metric distance signs I see around me.

10. Merry Christmas from a Sassenach!

And a guid new year from a whinging Jock!

P.S. How's the European Union been doing with the Scottish fishing industry since they took over the running of the North Sea from Britain on 1 January 1973? 32 whole years, eh? - they must have changed things one 'elluva lot by now

Yeah, as I explained before, the UK Govt thought Scottish Fishing interests were expendable. Why do you think the SNP do so well in fishing communities?

"Wasn't Cap'n Birdseye an American?"

Sounds Cornish from the ad's I've seen.

As far as I am aware, Clarence Birdseye (the founder of the firm) was a New Yorker. Adverts might be lying to us.....

Interestingly, his fish fingers were originally hated in inland towns - they didn't taste "fishy" enough.

The reason for this was that the locals in the inland towns (ie Birmingham etc) had never tasted fresh fish, and assumed that fish was meant to taste slightly rancid.

I very, very rarely eat fish outside my original home town. But I am biased.... And home town has a special reputation for best fish in UK (confirming my bias!)