Somebody with extensive knowledge of both please explain to me:
Why are JKD techniques or even some (of course not all) of its fundamental philosophies NOT effective in MMA fighting like Pride? Why are styles like Karate or Muay Thai so much more effective??
Can somebody please tell me why? I can never think of a good reason.
Are JKD attacks, such as its unique punching style, not as powerful, or what else can it be? Are we sacrificing power for speed, which seems unlikely for me because JKD punches snap at the end and speed has a direct relationship power? I am very perplexed by this. Please, there must be a simple reason for this question. I am going to ask Tommy Carruthers this question too. Anyways, thanks in advance.

Hello John!

I have addressed this before on several occasions. Jeet Kune Do is a street self defense art. That is the mentality that we train for. There is no sport or competition mentality whatsoever. The two are as different as night and day!

Most TRUE Jeet Kune Do practitioners do not have even a remote interest in competition style fighting. That is not what we train for! We train for being able to defend ourselves or those that we love in a real conflict where fighting becomes absolutely necessary!

I have no interest in hurting anyone for money, sport or competition, or putting myself in a position to be hurt! I am almost fifty years old and I have nothing to prove to anyone! If I have to fight, that is one thing, but to choose to fight for the fun of it, for ego satisfaction or for money, sorry, it isn't going to happen! That is NOT a life or death situation, nor does it require a single second of my attention! If MMA/UFC type events suddenly ceased to exist, I wouldn't bat an eye, in fact, I probably wouldn't even notice!

I hope this answer helps in some way! If not, at least you know my stand on these things!

Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Senior Instructor
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
JKD@windstream.net
http://www.HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 296-7070 (Incoming Only)

"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First - ALWAYS!"

"The REAL future of Jeet Kune Do belongs to US, the few, the proud, the HARDCORE! Now, what are we going to do with it?" _ Sifu Lamar M. Davis II

I couldn't agree more with Sifu Davis. Sport vs. Reality. I used to watch some MMA events and I have friends that love the stuff. I even know a guy that competes in local MMA/NHB events. None of them want to hear it when I challenge their beliefs that the UFC/Pride guys are the world's elite fighters. They don't want to hear that they've probably never heard of the world's elite fighters. So, the only reason that JKD wouldn't be able to function in the octagon or ring is because of the rules in place for safety. Fighters whose training is based in reality don't typically worry about the safety of their opponent.

Quick story about the guy I mentioned that competes in these events. I wasn't there, but one of my best friends was. This past Saturday night, he competed in an event held in Tuscaloosa. The guy I know made short work of his opponent and got him in an armbar. Well, the opponent, knowing he was either going to tap or get his arm messed up, drove his heel into the eye of the guy I know. JuJitsu? Legal? Absolutely not. Effective? Ask the guy who got kicked in the eye and let go of the arm bar.

MMA is just like a boxing competition with different rules. I've had a few "debates" with people who take, or used to take, various forms of martial arts that say it is a fight. I keep telling them that it's as close to a fight as you can get but it's still a sport. I don't doubt that many of the MMA fighters are good athletes and some may be good street fighters as well, as long as they understand they are completely different. If they see the way a true JKD fighter trains, they would cringe at some of the techniques.

Why do JKD attacks seem to be ineffective or not as powerful in MMA? I don't think anyone with true JKD background competes in MMA since that's not what JKD is about. Also, the targets would be ILLEGAL in sports competition and the targets doesn't require that much power to be effective. It doesn't take much power to hyper-extend someone's knee or to finger jab someone's eyes. A grappler would never get close enough to a real JKD fighter before he gets his leg broken, unless he's already close enough when the fight begins. When he shoots for the legs, he'll get his face crushed with a knee or his spine broken with an elbow. When he drops to his knees, a kick to the head will end the fight. Try these in MMA competition and see what happens.

As for power? I've never been told that my punches or kicks lacked power. When you just see a JKD technique, it may seem weak due to the simplistic nature of the attack. But when you hear or feel the impact, usually all doubt is removed.

Good points, especially the part about it being a sport. Also, it is highly unlikely that there is anyone in any of the major MMA events that have ever seriously trained in JKD. My student, Brandon Bryant, had a guy visit his school in Oklahoma who has had a few pro MMA fights. Once this guy decided to spar with Brandon, he quickly found out just how effective JKD, when utilized by someone highly trained, can be OVERWHELMING! Brandon quite simply destroyed this guy and he quit on his feet! Brandon said to me "I figured a pro fighter would be better than that". I have yet so witness anyone who fights in the UFC, Pride, KOTC, who displays anything other than a mix of amatuer level boxing, grappling, and some muay thai. A long long time ago a couple of people stepped in and claimed JKD or Jun Fan as they labeled it, but when they came out to fight, it was clear they were NOT well trained in it at all.

Allow me to make a couple of quick clarifications. I feel that pro and even some amateur mma fighers are incredible athletes, and although it IS a sport, it is a dangerous one, not to be taken lightly. I enjoy watching all of the events, and I have a high opinion of the guys that train seriously for those events and go through all the work and sacrifice it takes to become even a decent fighter. A lot of folks think it's easy to train in a mix of grappling, boxing, and muay thai, then step into the ring and be successful. more often than not, they fail. There are certainly excellent fighters in all of the MMA events, like Chuck Liddell, George St. Pierre, BJ Penn, and many others. I think that folks need to understand that there is a disconnect when it comes to training for something specific like that, and training for common street attacks. A street fight is far more unpredictable and dangerous. I in no way feel that I am better than any of those guys that fight in the UFC. It would also be dangerous to assume that because they train mostly for "sports" events, that they can not defend themselves in a street fight.

both MMA and JKD. My MMA experience was very good as it was a sport and I treated it as such. This was before I got back into training JKD. To be honest I could not compete now as I would throw a bil gee (finger jabs) or groin shots/kicks just out of reflex. Hardcore JKD is for the streets and reality. MMA is sport, not reality, and thus not very useful on the streets. Why try and take a person down when I can knock them down.


Kent

Kent, also, anyone that would try to physically assault you would have some sort of MENTAL PROBLEM anyway!!!:-)

be suprised at how many little guys become 10 feet tall and bullet proof when they have had too much drink. Thank the good LORD I don't hang in those places like I used to.


Kent

Great thread and good questions and answers.I think there are a couple of guys under Dan who have done very well in the ring. Eric Paulson and Ron Balicki come to mind. I have seen them use some JKD principles in their fights.Nakamura comes to mind as well.I think straight line principles and lin sil di dar serve especially well in any kind of sport fighting.
Like Bryan I respect some of them as great athletes.When all else is even it comes down to conditioning and strength. and heart.
To me JKD is the ultimate MMA.As bruce said
"If you bruise my skin I will smash your flesh.If you smash my flesh,I will break your bones,If you break my bones,I will take your life." To me Bruce was all about the reality of combat.with all its conditions.I have no doubt that the first thing I would do under attack would be to poke them in the eye and try to break their leg.That seems harsh but this was how I was trained.Full out and dead on. I don't know if many people on this forum have ever seen Sifu Lamar really turn on the killer instinct.But its like letting a crazed cat out of the bag.You really wished you had'nt opened the bag and you wish like hell you had'nt provoked it to begin with.
Thats to me is JKD. Pure killer instinct when that time comes.open the can of whoopass,pour it all over your victim till their drowning in it and walk on. Sorry for the mild profanity but somethings express better verbally with it.
Take Care
Mark

Just curious about the spine breaking. How is that done? Sinking elbow to the spine? A broken spine sure would put a damper on someone's "ground and pound" strategy!

Everyone else answered pretty good, so I just have to say:

KARATE!?

Karate has always gotten pwned in UFC/Prides.