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It is not gun control but personal control that this country needs. People have been conditioned to think that it is not my fault. The schools are to blame, the church is to blame, the republicans/democrats are to blame. No you are a grown person so you are to blame. People no longer want to respect others nor take responsibility for themselves. They want to wait for someone to give it to them or do it for them. They don't want to earn it. They pass the buck and do not take resposibility for themselves. I am responible for myself and my actions. My parents were responsible up to a point around 13-14 yrs. they still gave me guide lines to follow but I was responsible. If I failed to do homework and then failed a test or a grade it was not the teacher to blame it was me. Nowdays we blame the teacher. I was taught to respect my elders, teachers, coaches etc... If i had smarted off to a teacher I was paddled not once not twice but three times. Teacher/principal, coach and them my parents. As I got older I was punished in other ways. But who was to blame. ME!!! The only timeout I got was when they changed hands or another coach took over. People now days want too much PC, ACLU, government in their lives. They want to be sheeple and not people. they want the easy way of doing things. It is time for people to stand up for common sense and get back to the basics. We have spared the rod for to long and now we are not spoiled but are down right out of control.
Some thoughts
Prisons- take away the free education, weights and such put them back in the feilds. I worked and paid my way through college. I earned any and everything I've got
Schools- Unruly kids make the parents come to school with them or if they are older kick them out and put them in the military. Bring back respect for the teachers and give them control in the classroom. Make it a privelage to attend school not a right. If you don't follow the rules then you don't attend. Teach thema trade, put them to work or send them to the miltary.
Home- the parents are responsible for their kids off of school grounds. Hold them responsible for their behavior. If the kid is older and does not listen to the parent and is causing trouble. ARMY time or send the parent and child to jail for a week or so.
Welfare- for those that really need it. Not for those too lazy I willl et the government take care of me and say it is not my fault people. If you go on it you have so long to be on it and then no more extensions, you are on your own. At 13 yrs of age I had a grass cutting route. I earned 10 dollars per yard and had 20 yards to keep up. I cut ten one week ten the next; 2 yards a day minimum. Gee it is really hard to find a job.
These are just a few examples of people not wanting to take pride, responsibility nor respect for themselves and how they can be changed. Will it happen? No it will not happen. Oh well I guess it is not my fault or problem after all. Get the point.
As the saying goes, "Guns don't kill people ... people kill people!"
If everyone had respect for human life, and felt a responsibility to protect and preserve it, the world would be a better place! Just as I would only kill with my bare hands as a last resort, I would only shoot someone with my gun as a last resort! But rest assured, either way, it would have to be an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY for me or someone I love to survive to make me do such a thing!
Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Senior Instructor
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
JKD@windstream.net http://www.HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 296-7070 (Incoming Only)
"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First - ALWAYS!"
"The REAL future of Jeet Kune Do belongs to US, the few, the proud, the HARDCORE! Now, what are we going to do with it?" _ Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
First I fully agree with the sentiment that more gun control wouldn't have helped the situation. The only argument that could be made is that had the laws already on the books been followed Cho should have been denied buying a gun since he had once been committed to a mental hospital.
That said, I'm not sure the other suggestions, good as they may be, fit this case either. Prison reform? Well Cho had never been in prison. Also since he killed himself the thought of "tougher prisons" wouldn't have served as a deterrent. A lot of prisons already have work details. I seem to recall that Alabama had briefly brought back chain gangs. Most of the work is "busy work" like picking up trash on the side of the highway. Sometimes, however, you hear about prisoners doing work that earns money...at least for the greedy corporations running the prisons. Case in point a prison I once saw on a documentary where inmates were building school buses for 25 cents an hour. Ok fine. But what does that do for the unemployed autoworker?
Welfare? It certainly should be restricted to those that need it. But it Cho doesn't fit the profile of someone who's ever been on welfare. (Being an Asian from a two parent immigrant home and going to college). In fact most of these mass school shootings have been done by middle class or upper middle class people. Certainly there are problems in welfare that need to be addressed.
Home? Well I'm sure his parents are kicking themselves over what happened. And maybe they could have done something different. Then again maybe not. If you believe the story of Adam and Eve (and I happen to believe it) they initially had two sons. One was responsible, loving and obedient. The other was hateful, irresponsible and the first murderer. Two totally different kids raised by the same parents. But certainly all parents should do whatever it takes to raise their children responsibly. And the state needs to GET OUT OF THE WAY! I get VERY angry whenever I hear about parents being harassed by the police or social workers for spanking their children. Police can beat a kid upside his head with impunity, but if a parent spanks his bottom that's seen as the end of the world. And I don't think spanking is a "magic bullet" by any stretch of the imagination. But parents shouldn't be punished for trying to raise their children right.
Drugs? Few people in the mainstream media are talking about this, but the behavior modification drugs Cho was on list suicide as a possible side effect. Well common sense should tell us that just about anyone capable of suicide is capable of homicide.
School response? The school sent out an vague email at the time of the first shooting that gave vague details about what had happened and NO details about what to do. I heard one young lady interviewed on the radio that said she sent her father the email and he told her not to go to class. Why didn't the university have that much sense? They claim that they thought it was a "domestic incident". So what? Two people are dead, the shooter is on the loose and you're just going to go on as business as usual? By the time they sent this email the second set of shootings had already started. By the time they sent a second email telling students not to go to class because a shooter was on the loose, Cho had already killed himself. Also this was the SECOND shooting this year, so they had time to think about how to respond to this type of incident. There was even an "early warning speaker" system put in for this type of scenario, but it wasn't activated until the SECOND shooting. SOP should be if there's possibly a murderer still on campus classes are suspended until a security sweep is done. But you know what is really scary? Campus security at other universities have DEFENDED these actions calling them "textbook". Well it's time that the textbook be revised.
It has been proven that if you do not have gun`s LESS PEOPLE WILL BE SHOT
In England they are banned completely and we have very little gun crime here.
I seen on the U.S NEW`S that you can buy a gun with cash and not show ID
This is madness,i agree that people kill peole not gun`s but that is a cop out if ever there was one,WHY DO YOU NEED GUN`S AT ALL,It is not like you have to hunt food is it!!!
put the macho man to bed and ban them competly,ONE LIFE LOST IS TO MENY!!!!!!!!!!1
No, that is not how it is! You not only have to show your driver's licence, you are thoroughly checked for criminal record before you are allowed to make the purchase! I know this, because I have purchased many guns in the past. In fact, I purchased a Walther P-99 Tuesday afternoon. You have to present your driver's licence, and they call on the spot to check your criminal record!
Any decent person should have the right to bear arms, especially considering that the criminals will get them no matter what (illegally of course)! If you decide to commit a crime after purchasing a gun, you will be dealt with accordingly!
Criminals, thugs and gang bangers usually get their guns illegally. The guns were either stolen or purchased off the black market. In other words, the criminals WILL have their guns NO MATTER WHAT! There have been many cases where a citizen has been gunned down by thugs. If they had a gun at the time the incident occurred, their odds of survival would be greatly improved, and they may have lived to tell about it!
I will put in about an hour of combat handgun training today! There are many things that could happen where I could save lives by having that skill. Sure, the body is the ultimate weapon, but if the other person has a gun already drawn and pointed at you, if they intend to shoot you, you are pretty much done for! If you had a gun on you and drew at the first sign of the other person pulling a gun, you could end the conflict without further harm to anyone else, and that would be one less scumbag for the world to have to be victimized by! But, just like anything else, this takes training! Practice doesn't make perfect, PERFECT practice makes perfect!
Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Senior Instructor
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
JKD@windstream.net http://www.HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 296-7070 (Incoming Only)
"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First - ALWAYS!"
"The REAL future of Jeet Kune Do belongs to US, the few, the proud, the HARDCORE! Now, what are we going to do with it?" _ Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Let's contrast with Switzerland where able bodied men are REQUIRED to have guns unless they are conscientious objectors. Yet they have some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world. Why is that?
-If one were to ask a hundred people for a definition of spanking, along with the point that spanking became beating, that person would probably get so many different answers, it would render the survey pointless. There is a fine line between acceptable spanking and beating the crap out of a child. In working towards my social work degree and working with some agencies in the area, I can tell you that there are people who find it acceptable to whip their child with an extension cord or a water hose. I have spanked my neice and nephew when they were out of line, but for me a spanking consists of a quick swat or two to get the required attention, followed by redirection and reinforcment of some kind. And while I won't tell parents how to raise their child, if I see what I deem excessive physical punishment out in public, I'm stepping in for that child. If a police officer needs to be brought in, that's fine. If the adult abusing/beating/"spanking" the child feels it necessary to attempt to put me in my place, that's fine too. One has to keep in mind that whatever corporal punishment is being handed out in public is more than likely a watered down version of what happens at home.
- Have they actually said what medications the kid was supposed to be on? I stopped watching the news or reading about the sad incident mainly because I get fed up with the media feeding this country's obsession with all things devastating and tragic. I haven't heard the names, but I will say that the black label warning of suicide risk was required when the meds were prescribed for children. This wasn't a child. Further more, given the actions of this kid, do you really believe that he was actually taken the medications he was prescribed? Here we are in a post about responsiblity and the sentiment is posted that the drugs are to blame. And, yes, I've read all of the accounts of people who killed themselves or others and were on anti-depressants or psychotropic meds. And I've read the reports on how these meds make these people do terrible things. Are you kidding me? They were prescribed meds for a reason. It's entirely possible that the meds kept something from happening sooner. What people fail to realize is that meds aren't a miracle cure. They are a way to get back on an even keel, to get a person's head level so that they can work on issues from there. Furthermore, the broad generalization that anyone capable of suicide is capable of homicide is narrow minded. Just because one wants to end their own life, doesn't mean they have no respect for others' lives. To kill yourself, one is filled with hopelessness and a feeling that nobody will miss them. To kill others, one only needs a blinding rage and disregard for human life. This boy had both of these along with a host of other issues. For the record, had the judge documented his feeling that Cho was a threat to others and committed him to a mental facility then this may not have happened. The judge only documented the threat to himself and Cho was placed in a facility as a self-committed patient. That status allowed him to leave whenever he wanted.
-When I read the article about Tony Blair's comments, I couldn't help but notice all of the "..." indicating incomplete sentences and broken thoughts. I'm pretty sure that members of the media could take everything I've written here today and reconstruct it to say that I hate anyone from Finland. Oops, I gave them all they need in that sentence right there. In his speech, Blair says..."The black community...needs to be mobilised in denunciation of this gang culture that is killing innocent black kids. But we won’t stop this by pretending that it isn’t young black kids doing it.” Now, I'm not defending racist comments. I'm just questioning whether or not this is one. Can we please see the entire speech, or at least the entire section of the speech that gave us this nugget? I searched for awhile, but all I kept coming up with was everybody bitching about Blair being racist. We don't know the true context into which the comment was made, and we don't know the crime statistics to go along with the sections of the affected areas. People should be more responsible when bitching about a cut and pasted section of an entire dialogue.
-Finally, when comparing Switzerland to the U.S., there is a bigger picture to look at than the issue of gun control, and that is the overall culture. It has been like that since 1291...as in the year 1291. That is 716 years. That's a long freaking time to get used to a certain way of life. Try that here, now, and sit back and watch the clusterf*@& that ensues. For the record, the Swiss government banned the carrying of concealed weapon in 1999. The system in Switzerland works on the premise of the entire country having a sense of collective responsiblity. Here in the U.S., it's every man for himself, screw thy neighbor. Hell, I'm guessing that if you mention the words, "collective responsibility" to an average person on the street, they'll think you're talking about the job description of a collections agent.
-Okay, THIS is my final thought. The banning of guns will never take place in this country, nor do I think that it should. But the background check needs to get more extensive in what the check for. There are several things that I believe should be taked into consideration. Of course we all know now that mental health status is not in the current system. That will change I'm sure. A couple of other things: child abuse databases are by state, as are the registered sex offender databases. No national databases for either one of these, and I think that is a crime in itself. The databases should be national and they should be checked.
I've rambled enough. May the force be with you all.
will eventually happen here as it did in fascist Germany-Italy-Spain-China-Russia; I can go on. So-called terror attacks or shootings will keep happening and people will clamour for more control to the point of giving up the right. The VT shootings were done with ILLEGALLY bought guns. So we had better stock up on our baseball bats. Also when those are banned get more training time in with Sifu; PLEASE START NOW, yes I am yelling.
One of the only two fights that I have been in outside of school or the playing feild was over a child being disciplined. I am for spankings as the Bible says to spare the rod you spoil the child. The guys was swinging from right feild and connecting in left feild on a 4-5 year old. Not the pat/swat on the butt thing.
No matter what it still all boils down to common sense and WE common sense people that obey the law or the just laws putting our foot down on greedy/arrogant/ dumbasses that want to give the criminals all the benefits.
At least one of the guns used was bought legally. Not sure about the other one. As far as the banning of guns, it takes bills being introduced and supported by members of congress. For the vast majority of congressmen/women introducing or supporting such a bill would be political suicide. They know it and a couple of them have actually addressed that in discussion with one congresswoman who is fighting for stricter gun laws. Unnamed members of congress went to her and said that they would love to back her, but they wouldn't get re-elected.
This message has been edited by Sifu Lamar M. Davis II from IP address 151.213.250.90 on Apr 23, 2007 4:33 PM
On spanking. While YOU might draw the line between "allowable" and spanking and abuse, there are others, unfortunately, who do NOT. I know personally of cases of parents who have NOT abused their kids in the manner that you have described but who HAVE been harassed by police and or social workers. Furthermore it seems that often abuse BY police goes unchallenged. Case in point was what happened to a 4 year old girl in Florida. The classroom video camera shows her having a simple temper tantrum. The "teacher" follows her around saying "Now don't do that". Then later after the child has CALMED DOWN the police are brought in. The PAINFULLY twist her arm and drag her out in handcuffs! THAT is abuse! And if that grown teacher felt threatened by an unarmed 5 year old girl then that teacher has no business in the classroom!
See the trend? This could have been fixed by a simple "swatting" as you put it, but instead it becomes a police incident, and the police are praised for committing clear child abuse.
On Tony Blair. You seem oblivious to my main point. It wasn't simply that Blair was being racist (he CLEARLY was) but more importantly that gun crime has INCREASED in Great Britain since the banning of guns. There is NO debating that. So rather than look at that as a cause and effect, Blair did what any spineless politician would do and shifted the blame to a minority group.
On Switzerland versus the U.S. While the U.S. isn't as old as Switzerland, it does have a long history of a gun culture. You act like guns in the U.S. are new. What history books have you been reading? As for what would happen if it "were tried here" well, just look at states that have enacted concealed carry laws such as Vermont and Florida. In each case the number of gun crimes went DOWN. By contrast areas of the country with the strictest gun laws have the worst gun crime. (Washington D.C., New York City, ect.) So you don't have to "imagine" what would happen. You just have to objectively look at the facts.
Finally, I have not always had the position I have. I used to be STRONGLY against guns. But then I looked at the facts, as opposed to imagining made up "clusterf*ck" scenarios. The facts simply don't bear out the gun control position. Frankly I wish they did. I wish guns didn't exist. I wish nobody had them including the police, the military, the criminals or any other entity. But that's simply not realistic. As Kent pointed out the people that benefit most from gun bans are fascist governments and criminals. Look at New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. Those who remained behind had to band together not only to protect themselves from the criminals, but also from police who were stealing vehicles, fuel and other necessities at gunpoint.
As for background checks, while we're checking up on citizens we need to also find out "who's watching the watchers". Here in Tennessee one of the local newspapers discovered that a significant portion of the highway patrol were CONVICTED FELONS! Further investigation showed there were other officers who's misdeeds had been glossed over.
On your first point. Agreed. The teacher and police officers in question, are abusive chodes.
Perhaps you should read an entire post, maybe even more than once, before responding. I get the distinct impression that you missed the part where I stated that I didn't think guns should be banned. I'm simply saying that adopting the Swiss way of approaching guns would not work here. This country has its own gun culture, but you're delusional if you think that it compares to Switzerland. Some WWII historians have stated that Hitler steered clear of Switzerland because of their abundance of guns, as well as the citizens' proficiency with them. He made no such concession when attacking American ships that were transporting supplies to the British. And let's not forget the U-boats that found their way into the Gulf of Mexico. Now, who was das Fuhrer more afraid of? To think that a country can just adopt something that has been working in another country, with an entirely different culture, and it can go off without a hitch, is phenomenally short-sighted.
I'm well aware of the YOUNG history of this country. I know guns have always been in our society, but they have not been handled in the same way as the aforementioned country. I seem to recall a period in our country out west, when people carried guns with no problem. Seems to me crime was still an issue, as were reckless vigilantes. And like I said in my previous post, you can't carry a concealed weapon in Switzerland. However, feel free to walk down the street with a high-powered rifle on your shoulder. No problems there. Try that here. Even if the police didn't bother you, some people would freak out. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT CULTURE! Not that difficult of a concept to grasp.
By the way, I figured someone of your intelligence would know better than to believe everything you read in history books. You do know we're only told what they want us to learn, right? For example, the Declaration of Independence should declare that not all RICH, WHITE men are created equal, because that is what they truly meant. Want more? Helen Keller was a communist. I'm full of them, but I'll move on. So, yes, John, I read history. But I don't just take in what I'm fed. I actually think about it critically and look beyond the words on the page.
Your story about Tennessee and its cops...you live in Tennessee, what do you expect? I'm astounded at times that there are highways in tennessee, much less highway patrol. Before you fire back with something about Alabama, I really don't care.
I'll stop picking out everything you wrote and responding individually, because I really don't know where you were going with any of this. I can only assume you're responding to what I said about more intense background checks. So you ramble on about crooked cops. Congrats. I'm not really sure anyone knew that your average streetcop was just a punk that got picked on and beat up in high school. But now he's got a badge and a gun and he's going to show people what's up. That's been my experience anyway. Yeah, people should pay more attention to who they put in uniform. There I conceded one to you. My point included mental health status, child abuse network, and sex offender registries. Your response sounded like you were taking up for these idiots who shouldn't be allowed to carry a damn butterknife. But that's your nature isn't it? I believe you just enjoy an argument, even if it means deflecting attention away from the main point to go off on a tangent that was really here nor there.
Maybe I did miss your main point about Blair. That might be because you didn't make it clear enough. Blair's statements was regarding violence in general. One of the main cases he referred to that day was a case of a stabbing victim (black kid stabbed by a black kid). KNIFE RIGHTS!!! KNIFE RIGHTS!!!
I'm growing tired of typing so I'll stop here. You'll probably only read about 30% of this post anyway and then start rambling on about how Belarussian citizens are born with guns growing out of their hands. Doesn't make sense? Unrelated tangent? Welcome to the world of trying to follow one of your posts.
I couldn't agree more! Excellent post! Too many
refuse to take responsibility for their actions
and too many want a handout. I am all for helping
those in need who cannot help themselves. But,
not for the lazy who only hurt the economy.
Groups like the ACLU are trying to take away our
freedoms. We need to get back to what the Founders
intended......."One Nation UNDER GOD!"
If people don't like what our country was founded
on, they are free to leave. They have my support
in their departure!
Drake, meet Christian. Christian, meet my pal John Drake. Now that that is over with.
Here are some points to keep in mind when posting.
For those that wish to debate ANYTHING political with Drake...give it up. You WILL lose and lose in a fashion that will leave you unable to reproduce for months! LOL
I am by no means a mod here or anything, just a student, but try not to get too heated on Sifu Davis' forum about things that are better suited to hot discussion on another forum.
Christian, no slight on you my friend, but don't take things too seriously here. Drake loves to discuss politics and world news and can copy and paste news links like a man possessed. He can be aggravating, arguementative and nerve-wracking even to the most seasoned forum-warriors. That being said, he is also a really great guy and means absolutely no harm or insult when he posts. Unless of course he means harm and insult, in which case, he will let it be known.
Drake, cool your jets man! LOL j/k Go easy on us and save the poison-clan death touch for those "other forums" we frequent. Bad Drake! Bad bad bad.
Not sure what you mean there Bryan. I gave that round to Christian. Of course, I doubt he really cares as he has more meaningful things in his life than political forum arguments...
Christian, I won't bother with everything you wrote other than to reiterate that where gun laws have been relaxed crime has gone down. Now maybe there were other causes to that. Feel free to come up with your own explanations. But the "chicken little the sky will fall" scenario due to concealed carry laws is a bit far fetched.
As for Tennessee versus Alabama...ummm...you do know that I'm from Alabama right? Well, maybe you don't. Ok. I'm from Alabama and I was born in Birmingham. And guess what? You've got dirty cops down their too! My cousin in a principal. She told me a story of how she was leaving work late, came around the corner and saw a drug deal going down on top of a police cruiser. The stuff you see on the show "The Shield" really happens. And no, not all cops are dirty. In fact I'm sure most aren't. My only point is that while we're talking about doing background checks on all of society, why not make sure they've been properly done on the "public servants" first? Really, if you think that you are somehow "protected" because "idiots who shouldn't own a butter knife" are prevented from owning a gun....unless they join the police force...well I'm not sure what else to say.
You really don't read an entire post, do you? Either that or you don't read it slow enough to actually comprehend what you're reading. Let's recap:
I never said idiots who shouldn't own butterknives are prevented from owning a gun. I just said that were defending said idiots.
I never said all cops are dirty. I said most have high school-based self-esteem issues that they are compensating for.
I never said you were from Tennessee. I said that you live in Tennessee. Don't be so defensive.
I'm not from Alabama so, once again, I truly don't care.
I know all about the existence of dirty cops in every community. I believe there is actually a training facility for dirty cops where I'm from.
I don't watch "The Shield". (I didn't actually disclose this before. You just assumed.)
I never said potential cops shouldn't be checked thoroughly. I don't even know how you got on the subject of cops being checked.
I don't rely on police for some saint-like protection. I believe in a person having awareness of themselves and their surroundings and, to a certain extent, being responsible for their own safety. If I didn't feel this way, I probably wouldn't see the value in training with Sifu Davis.
Lastly, no prophecy here of a "chicken little the sky will fall" scenario based on concealed carry laws. There is a huge difference in relaxing gun laws and adopting another culture's way of life. Try to look at the big picture and not just certain phrases that vaguely support your argument.
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