The messages from the old board will be posted here as one thread in an attempt to keep from pushing this board's newest messages to the bottom of the pile. Because I don't have the capability to put the messages at the bottom of the stack where they should go they will all be enclosed in their entirity in this single thread. The information from the old board was too vital to lose. And if you are interested in something in particular you may use the search feature and hopefully find the material you need. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused but it was completely out of my control.
Is anyone uaing lipoic acid right up fromt with the first dose of DMSA as per the latest DAN protocol? Or am I the only one???
Sunday 4-Mar-2001 17:11:06 Beth
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You are not the only one...
Sunday 4-Mar-2001 22:42:00
I started that with Daniel in November. Kirkmans low dose. We are getting a small amount of metals out each round. I feel better taking it slowly. Progress has been very good! Regression some but not too bad.
Stacie
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Does nayone know if there has been a more recent version of the DAN postition paper on chelation. I have version 1.5 form December 2000. Did the last meeting in Feb 2001 produce any new recommendations?
Saturday 3-Mar-2001 15:09:29 Beth
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Not out yet. should be soon.
Sunday 4-Mar-2001 07:37:02
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mercury in our water???
Monday 26-Feb-2001 14:59:40
Has anyone considered the possibility of our water having mercury in it??
I read an article that stated that Florida and Indiana had very high amounts of mercury in the ground water...I noticed those 2 because these are the 2 states I have lived in...If there is mercury in the water you are getting mercury every time you bathe take a shower etc. I have ordered a test for my water as I have well water I understand that a reverse osmosis filter system will remove mercury from the water.
Lindy
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Re: mercury in our water???
Monday 26-Feb-2001 17:10:39
With well water this is a definite possibility. Mercury as well as lead and other toxics. You are wise to get your water tested. If it is indeed toxic consider a whole-house filter.
Susan,
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What is the web addy for the new Chelation message board?
I have studied some about chelation...I got some of the suggested supps. After I gave my son alpha-lipoic acid...I had to get him from school because he had vomited...this has happened twice in the last 2 weeks and I think both days I had given him ALA. He has vomited before when he was on nystatin powder for candida. He is not "sick" because he is just fine the rest of the day. anyone have any ideas?.............Thanks and God bless
How much are you giving how much does your child weigh and how often are you giving the ALA?
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Re: Re: vomiting after ALA
Monday 26-Feb-2001 14:53:27
My son is 10 and weighs over 100 #. I gave him 50mg of ALA he only got it twice. From what I understand I should not have given it to him until I chelate with DMSA??? I am wondering if the mercury and the ALA did not "mix" and made him ill??
Lindy
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Re: Re: Re: vomiting after ALA
Tuesday 27-Feb-2001 09:43:13
From what I've read from other people vomiting isn't really a common side effect. How does he tolerate other vitamins? My husband for instance has a lot of gut problems and has to be careful with all supplements. As far as using ALA--- The most conservative way to chelate is to use DMSA first to get rid of any mercury that is circulating in the body first. Then move on to ALA. If there is no recent mercury exposure (vaccines recent amalgam removal) and the hair test didn't show mercury it may be safe to start with ALA. YOU SHOULD NOT EVER USE ALA OR DMSA IF YOU HAVE AMALGAM FILLINGS! This would definitely make you sicker. If you do use ALA it must be given every 3-4 hours around the clock yes even at night. Otherwise it doesn't work and can make a person sicker. For more information join the A-M list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury. The list is open to anyone. Then read the Mercury Autism FAQ in the "files" section.
Susan
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St. Louis Doctors - Anyone have a recommendation?
Friday 23-Feb-2001 10:18:31
I live near St. Louis and am looking for a doctor that will work with me to test and treat my autistic son for mercury exposure.
Thanks,
Lance
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I don't right now--I live near St. Louis too. If you find one please post it.
Friday 23-Feb-2001 14:16:28 Shirley
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Does anyone know if Rhogam (RH negative shot) is available w/out Mercury?
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 14:18:58
My first child has autism. I've been seriously thinking about more children but I want to avoid any Mercury for me during pregnancy. I'm RH Negative and will have to get the Rhogam shots. Is this available without the Thimerisol? From what company?
Leslie
leslie_gallagher@hotmail.com
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Rogram - from Autism/Mercury board
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 20:50:26
Laurie
They merc-free one is made by Bayer called BayRho I do believe.
Chris
On Thu 22 Feb 2001 18:48:15 -0000 chinamom@p... writes:
>>I'm at one of my sis's (a mid wife)and she is getting ready to order a RhoGam shot for one of her mom's. I told her there is one out there WITHOUT Thimesol.... But I can't remember the name of it. HELP!!! ANy other things you all know about that I can pass on to her that might be healthier???? What about the shot for jaundice you were all talking about a couple of weeks ago???
Thanks
Laurie
Mom to Grace 3.10
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In their paper "Autism: A Unique Type of Mercury Poisoning" Bernard et. al http://www.cureautismnow.org/sciwatch/invest.cfm have revealed a startling similarity in the symptoms of Autism and Mercury Poisoning. While this may sound frightening it actually shines a bright ray of hope into the lives of families living with an autistic child. Why? Because mercury poisoning can be cured.
Q: How dangerous is mercury?
Very. Mercury is the second most toxic element on earth second only to plutonium. The amount of mercury found in one mercury thermometer is enough to pollute a small lake. Mercury toxicity has been linked to a large number of diseases including arthritis altzheimer’s multiple sclerosis fibromyalgia lupus chronic fatigue syndrome depression bipolar disorder schizophrenia learning disabilities and ADHD.
Q: How could my child have become mercury poisoned?
Many parents believe the major culprit to be thimerosal a preservative used in vaccines and other medications. Thimerosal is 50% mercury by weight. In October 1998 the FDA banned the use of thimerosal in over the counter medications. Since July 1999 the FDA has "encouraged" manufacturers to remove thimerosal from vaccines. Some have done it; others have not. Today most vaccines that are being manufactured do not contain thimerosal or they only contain a "trace." But we do not know how many of the old thimerosal products are still on the shelf.
Each vaccine containing thimerosal exceeds the EPA's safety guidelines of 0.1 mcg/kg/day. Since multiple vaccines are often given on the same day the amount of mercury injected into a typical infant is many times over the "safe" limit. Before the FDA ban mercury had been added to eye drops contact lens preparations nasal sprays contraceptive creams hemmhoroid creams lubricating gels allergy injections and antiseptics such as Mercurochrome® and merthiolate.
Q: What are some other sources of exposure to mercury?
There are many other common sources for mercury exposure. Here's a short list:
Dental amalgams
Released into the air by coal burning plants
Fish and shellfish especially tuna salmon and swordfish
Some paints
Thermometers and blood pressure gauges (especially if mercury from broken instruments was spilled on carpet)
Fluorescent light bulbs
It is important to note that mercury present in a mother's body is passed to her baby through the placenta and later through breast milk. See: "Mercury from maternal "silver" tooth fillings in sheep and human breast milk. A source of neonatal exposure." By Vimy Hooper and King: http://hera.algonet.se/~leif/yrvim97a.htm
Q: But my dentist told me that dental amalgam is perfectly safe.
The presence of mercury in dental amalgams is a very controversial subject. Despite the fact that dental amalgam contains 50% mercury the American Dental Association's official position is that dental amalgam is safe and that mercury does not pose a health risk. However numerous research studies show that dental amalgams are a major source of mercury toxicity. Because of the ADA’s position your dentist risks losing his license if he tells you that mercury is dangerous no matter what he personally believes.
Q: If mercury poisoning is caused by vaccines they why aren't all kids mercury toxic?
Sensitivity to mercury varies widely from person to person as does the body's natural ability to detoxify. Some children can get rid of the mercury quickly while in others the toxin remains in the body longer allowing it time to bind tightly in the brain and other organs.
Q: Has anyone actually "cured" their autistic child by chelating them?
The book "Turning Lead Into Gold" describes several cases of children with "autistic tendencies" who improved dramatically after chelation for lead.
As of this writing no one on this list has completely cured their child from mercury poisoning. But its early yet. Dr. Amy is getting some wonderful results with the children in her practice and numerous parents have reported improvements in their autistic children with each chelation cycle.
DETERMINING MERCURY TOXICITY & FIRST STEPS
Q: My doctor says that my child is not mercury toxic because his/her blood and urine mercury levels are "within normal limits." What do you think?
Most MDs are more familiar with lead poisoning than mercury poisoning. Blood and urine tests are the standard for measuring lead but these tests are inadequate for mercury. This is because once mercury enters the body it very quickly leaves the bloodstream and accumulates in the internal organs. Therefore urine and blood tests will only show mercury if the person has been exposed to a large amount of mercury very recently. Chronic long-term exposure (amalgams) or old exposure (vaccines) will not show up with these tests. A better way to test for mercury is by using a hair elements test.
Q: How can I find out if my child has mercury poisoning?
Dr. Amy Holmes lists a number of useful medical tests on the website: http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm. A trace minerals analysis or hair test is an inexpensive non-invasive and reasonably accurate test for determining the body's burden of mercury and other heavy metals. Doctor's Data (708/231-3649) is a great source for obtaining this test. Keep in mind that mercury may be so tightly bound in the body's organs that it doesn't show up in large amounts in the hair test. Instead of looking at mercury by itself it is necessary to look at all of the elements and to apply the "counting rules" (posted in files) to determine if mercury is present.
Q: My alternative doctor wants to do a DMPS challenge test. Is this safe?
No. DMPS challenge tests and IV chelation with DMPS can be very dangerous—see www.dmpsbackfire.com. A challenge test is when a doctor administers a large amount of a chelator in a single dose and then tests the urine for metals. Challenge tests in general aren't useful for diagnosing mercury toxicity because everyone has some mercury in them and DMPS (or DMSA) will mobilize it. If DMPS is to be used it should be administered orally every 8 hours. And no one should take a chelator of any kind if they have dental amalgam fillings.
Some doctors suggest doing the same sort of challenge test using a large oral dose of DMSA or will suggest treatment with infrequent doses of chelator (once a day or every other day). This is also dangerous. Chelators should always be given in frequent small doses (every 3-4 hours for DMSA every 8 hours for DMPS).
Q: I've made an appointment for a hair test and I'm trying to find a doctor to help me chelate. Is there anything I can do right now?
Yes—you can begin supplementation. There are many dietary supplements that can help your child to feel better now and during the chelation process. Here are some important ones:
Take these 4 times a day:
Vitamin B complex Vitamin C and Milk Thistle extract
Take these often (frequency not as critical): Zinc Magnesium Vitamin E mixed carotenes and lypocene flax seed oil.
Q: OK I'm convinced my child is mercury toxic. What do I do now?
If your child has dental amalgams you will need to find a mercury-free dentist who can replace the silver amalgam fillings with some other material. Next you should try to find a doctor who can help with chelation. Keep in mind that most regular allopathic doctors are not familiar with mercury toxicity. You don't have to go to a regular MD. "Alternative" doctors such as osteopaths naturopaths homeopaths and chiropractors may be able to help you obtain chelating agents and monitor your child's health during the process. You don't have to have a doctor to chelate but it is a very good idea.
Q: My child has only one amalgam filling and I can't seem to find a dentist who will agree to replace it. Can't I go ahead and chelate?
Absolutely not. You cannot start chelation if there are any silver amalgam fillings present. The chelator will remove mercury from the filling and deposit it in your child's body making him even more toxic.
Q: I've gotten back the hair test results for my child and it shows he has high levels of other metals besides mercury. What should I do?
Generally you remove the other metals first. High levels of lead copper arsenic antimony or aluminum can cause symptoms similar to mercury poisoning. If your child has high levels of several metals he is likely very sick. Test again in three months.
Recommendations for chelating other metals:
Lead: Use DMSA but follow the protocol for mercury in case mercury is present as well. Administer every 3-4 hours for several days then rest for the same number of days etc.
Arsenic: Use DMSA first if your child is mercury toxic. LA works very well for arsenic. Chelate using mercury protocol (every 3 hours with on/off cycles).
Antimony: Use SAMe 5 mg a day per pound of kid in divided doses. Or you can use the "poor man's methylating mix" of B-12 (100 mcg per pound) folate (10 mcg per pound) and TMG or choline (10-20 mg per pound). Spread these through the day. They may be energizing so you might want to give them in the earlier part of the day.
Copper: Copper absorption can be greatly reduced by giving 25 mg zinc + 250 mcg molybdenum 4 times a day and also by excluding high copper foods from the diet. Nuts organ meats shellfish molasses and sometimes unwashed produce are high. Glycine taurine and milk thistle extract might help get rid of copper faster.
Note: You should not give LA if your child has high copper levels as LA will drive copper levels higher.
Aluminum: Restrict dietary intake. Don't cook in aluminum pans or drink sodas from aluminum cans. Certain baking powders antacids and antiperspirants contain aluminum so be sure to check labels.
Cadmium: Zinc may help.
Antioxidant supplements help reduce the symptoms of all heavy metal problems.
CHELATION
Q: What are chelating agents?
Chelating agents are compounds with two or more binding groups for certain metals combined into one molecule. Chelating agents for mercury are DMPS (2 3 dimercaptopropanesulfonate sodium) DMSA (2 3 meso DiMercaptoSuccinic Acid. Generic name: Succimer. Trade name: Chemet) and ALA (alpha lipoic acid).
Q: What is DMPS?
DMPS has been approved for bulk distribution by compounding pharmacies and is excellent for removing mercury from the body (but not the brain) if it is used properly.
Unfortunately many physicians use it and other chelating agents improperly and like any drug these can be extremely dangerous when not used right.
Susan
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Trying to get up to speed on Mercury
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 08:40:52
Hi everyone. I have a 10 year old autistic son. I have just started hearing about Mercury this past week. I am very interested in having my son tested for Mercury. How have you been going about getting your children tested? What tests should be done? Are you using your normal family doctor or is this similar to Secretin and only certain doctors are willing to work with you? If so can anyone recommend a specific doctor to work with?
Lance
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Re: Trying to get up to speed on Mercury
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 09:13:00
The DAN doctors are supposed to be up to speed with mercury chelating. Mine wasn't as of last fall but he may be now. One complaint about the doctors that are supervising the chelation that I keep hearing is that they don't do it consistent with Dr. Holmes or Dr. Andy Cutler. And these two seem to know what they are doing more so. If you find a doctor make sure you really trust them.
And if you can't find a doctor and still want to proceed this is what you need to know.............
Susan posted down below on a different post that there is a site that will order the lab tests without a doctor. That they have a doctor that will sign for the tests. It is at....
www.healthchoice.net
And there is another site where you can order the DMSA without an RX. A prescription is not required for DMSA but most pharmacies will not sell it without one. It is at....
www.vrp.com
The DMSA chelates mercury out of the cells in the GI tract. After you chelate for about 4 months the urine should show clear of mercury. Then you continue to chelate with DMSA and add ALA (lipioc acid--available at any health food store) The ALA chelates the mercury from the brain cells. You continue with the DMSA to make sure that when the mercury unbinds and is in the body loose again that it doesn't re-settle in the GI tract or anywhere else.
I hope this helps---There are alot of people with experience on this board that can help you through the whole process.
Shirley
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WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO ORDER A HAIR ANALYSIS TEST??
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 07:07:14
Hi all
I am preparing to do chelation on my son (autism-apraxia) Can anyone suggest where to order the hair analysis or what do I do??
I think Great Plains where I got his other tests done 2 years ago has them but does anyone have any suggestions???
Thanks
Lindy
readjoshua19@yahoo.com
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Doctor's Data
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 09:29:45
This is supposed to be the best place. They've been doing it for many years and have a very understandable report. They are also relatively inexpensive. Second choice would be Great Smokies. I don't know about Great Plains
You will have to get a doctor's signature to get the test from any of these places. If you don't have a doctor yet you can go to www.healthchoice.net and request a hair anaylsis. They have a doctor on staff who will order it for you. Request Doctor's Data. For more information on DDI go to www.doctorsdata.com
Good Luck!
Susan
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Re: WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO ORDER A HAIR ANALYSIS TEST??
Thursday 22-Feb-2001 09:32:23
I think the preferred labs for hair analysis are:
Doctors Data Inc. www.doctorsdata.com
Great Smokies Diagnostic Labs www.gsdl.com
If you order from either of these labs the "counting rules" for heavy metal toxicity are easily applied.
in limbo
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My son fine with all metals except Tin anybody chelate just for this?
Wednesday 21-Feb-2001 21:08:55
I hear a lot about mercury and lead poisoning but next to nothing about tin. Has anyone else had a child with high tin that improved after chelation?,Judy M.,
Re: My son fine with all metals except Tin anybody chelate just for this?
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Wednesday 21-Feb-2001 21:34:45
Hi
just because your child didnt show other metals in a urine or hair test doesn't mean they're not there! Mercury is a very tightly bound metal and doesnn't usually show until all other loosely bound stuff is out. What type of test did you do and how high was the tin? ( how old is the child also....)
If you use Doctor's Data or Great Smokies for your hair test you can use Andy Cutler's "Counting Rules" to determine the likelihood that your child is mercury poisoned. I will repost rules below
"The Counting Rules"
Written by Andy Cutler
INTRODUCTION: WHY HAVE "COUNTING RULES"
Mercury is taken up by the body tissues and held for longer or shorter times. The blood holds on to it for a few months the brain forever and the rest of the tissues are in between.
Thus in chronic poisoning or long after an exposure (such as from vaccines) some tissues have very little mercury in them. Other tissues may still have plenty and be well poisoned.
Unfortunately most medical tests sample tissues that don't hold on to mercury very long. Because of this measuring mercury in blood urine hair or feces is often not helpful in determining whether a person is poisoned.
The way to tell if a person is poisoned when mercury doesn't show up in the readily accessible things people will let the doc have some of is to test those accessible tissues for the biochemical abberations mercury causes. Since mercury impairs mineral transport examining hair for the level of many essential elements lets us determine if mercury has left its signature in the hair's biochemistry even if the mercury itself doesn't show up.
ABOUT TEST RESULTS IN GENERAL
Medical laboratory tests are standardized by testing a bunch of normal healthy people and determining "normal ranges" where 1 person in 40 on average is above them and 1 in 40 below for a total of 2 in 40 or 1 in 20 who do not fall "within normal limits."
Of course with this statistical definition this means that if you do eight gazillion tests in some mondo test panel some of them are expected to randomly be out of range. The Doctor's Data hair element analysis is in effect one of those mondo test panels like a "chem 25" blood test panel. While it is extremely difficult to go look at the myriad interrelationships of all the things on these panels (and in practice nobody does it) it is possible to use statistical methods to turn the whole panel into "one test" that is either "within normal limits" or "abnormal." I have done this and generated the following rules to interpret the DDI "essential and other" elements portion of their test which includes 23 elements. For tests including a number of elements different than 23 the rules have to be rederived.
HOW TO READ A HAIR TEST FROM DDI
If any of the following rules are met the test is "abnormal" for mineral transport and suggests heavy metal toxicity. These rules are ONLY for the Doctor's Data test - tests by other companies need different rules. I highly recommend using the DDI test.
Count the number of results that are above "average " that is above the 50th percentile line in the middle of the page and the bar extends to the right instead of to the left.
Count the number of results that are all the way to either edge of the page "very elevated" or "very low."
Count the number of results that are in the middle band of the page with a short bar and are neither "elevated" nor "low."
The result is abnormal and suggests heavy metal intoxication if any of the following criteria are met:
The number of essential elements "very elevated" and "very low" is 4 or more. &
The number of essential elements entirely inside the middle band is 14 or less.
The number of essential elements above average is EITHER 5 or less OR it is 18 or more.
If any ONE of these criteria is met the test result is abnormal.
If any one (or more) of these criteria are met there is a 1 in 44 chance that it happened randomly and a 43 in 44 chance that something is wrong. Of course the chances that it is random diminish rapidly as the deviation departs from the minimum listed number just as the chance that a result on a blood test say for the liver enzyme ALT means something if it is 300 points above normal instead of 3 points above normal. (since you can't count say 5 and a half tests out of 23 doing it this way I couldn't make it exactly 1 in 40 so I made it as close as I could).
ADDITIONAL PATTERNS WHICH ARE CHARACTERISTIC OF MERCURY TOXICITY
There are some characteristic nonstatistical findings too in mercury toxic people that I thought I would mention. These are probably caused by more heavy metals than just mercury but are NOT caused by COPPER toxicity - copper toxic people with nothing else going on have very normal looking hair analyses except for very elevated copper. Not everyone has these but they are reasonably common:
Typically the calcium is vastly elevated. Usually the lithium is very low too.
Sometimes there is a really characteristic pattern of Ca and Mg very high with Na and K very low. This isn't present in many cases but is common enough to mention since it is strongly diagnostic.
The most important finding is a bit difficult to describe but if you look at the hair analyses of some "normal" people it is quite obvious by eye - mercury toxic people have their essential elements much more scattered than well people. Lots of highs and lows.
HOW TO READ A HAIR TEST FROM GREAT SMOKIES
The GSDL hair element analysis is interpreted by counting the number of "abnormal" highs and lows (way at the edges of the little bell curves on the test result sheet) for the nutrient elements + the additional elements. This gives 21 elements considered.
The number of results above "average" is also counted by drawing a line down the middle of the column with a ruler since there is no appropriate marking on the page. Do this carefully.
If the number of abnormal highs plus abnormal lows is 3 or more the test result is overall abnormal for mineral transport (and positive for mercury or other poisoning).
If the number of elements that are above average (above the line you drew down the middle) is not between 6 and 15 (that is if it is either less than 6 or greater than 15) then the test result is overall abnormal for mineral transport (and positive for mercury or other poisoning).
This information is provided so you can interpret the GSDL hair test if you happened to get one. If you are considering getting a test the Doctor's Data test is presented in such a way that it is more useful and it is also less expensive. Thus the DDI test is a better choice if you are offered one. But if you already had the test or don't have a choice this is how to interpret the GSDL hair elements test.
APPENDIX
For those who like numbers and equations the way I did this is pretty simple.
The probability of a given number of event "A" and event "B" where "B" is "not A" out of n tries is:
Pa ^ Na * Pb ^ Nb * 23CNb
(23CNa = 23CNb since Na + Nb = 23
where Na is the number of events A and Nb is the number of events B and Pa and Pb are the probabilities of events A and B. Pa + Pb = 1.
So I could calculate this for all Na and sum the probabilities up from say zero to some number. What I did was calculate probabilities and add them up so the total probability of satisfying the counting rules given above is 0.023 (2.3%) and all the the 3 different things I check have similar probabilities of occurrence.
The probability Pa of something being "very elevated" or "very low" is defined by the "normal limits" of a medical test as 0.05.
The probability Pa of something being within one standard deviation of average (in the middle band on the DDI test report) is defined by statistics as 2/3.
The probability Pa of something being greater than average is of course 0.5 or 50%.