Do you use on the hammer and bolt. I have been using Silicone but it seems to make it stiffer to cock.

Jeff Schock
WB9ZPO
QB78 carbine tuned by CO2une,
QB78 Thumb hole stock
AR2078 mild tune by MM

Silicon isn't really a lube (it's sand, right?), but it doesn't burn or 'thin down' so it has some uses.

If you have a CO2 gun, you want to use 'real' (hydrocarbon or 'mineral') oil. Crosman Pel Gun oil, for instance. Not 'gun oil' (solvents and additives are tough on seals and if it's on the gun, it will get on your fingers, onto the pellets and into the gun....). Or 'the poor man's substitute, ND SAE 30 weight 'motor oil'. Be sure it's ND (non detergent), harder to find, but it's around. It's used in compressors and the like, often in the Garden section of large hardware stores.

Silicon 'lubes' are only going to gum up the works.....literally. It makes a mess with the oil already there as you found. Hydrocarbons and Si don't mix. One or the other, not both.

Doug Owen

"Silicon isn't really a lube (it's sand, right?", yeah right Doug. ROFL!

D R

Yes, common 'beach sand' is silicon dioxide an eventual part of any silicon 'lube' in air. Silicon 'lubes' are generally suspensions of small molecules, not the very long carbon chains (40 or more) you find in hydrocarbon greases. Here oxides that form (they make oils and greases go dark over time....) don't cause issues like SiO2 does.

You don't have to take my word for it, of course (or other folks) but you might notice the great absence of such products anywhere you can use conventional hydrocarbons (they show up in food use and vacuum systems for contamination reasons, not because they are useful lubes). Notice say BMW using it?

Doug Owen

>Silicon isn't really a lube (it's sand, right?), but it doesn't burn or 'thin down' so it has some uses.<

"Silicone" oil is a polymerized compound with lubrication properties.

"Silicon" is an element usually found in Earth's crust as silicon dioxide, such as sand or quartz.

They are about as similar to each other as the rat in your attic is to Mickey Mouse.

Let's keep the chemistry real here ....

Jeff,

I think you will find a moly grease will work well. I make my own moly-silcone grease and get the best of both worlds.

D R

Actually, silicon is an abundant element, of which is part of many other compounds. Silicone lubes are great for nearly everything, since they usually (in spray form) resist catching dust and grit. BUT, being so thin, they are good only for tight bearing surfaces. Silicone grease is better, used many times in aqualung valves and food machinery. There is a non-compatability issue when used with other lubes. Either silicone grease or the oil base, but not both!

you want a low viscosity wet tube or a dry lube,since anything at all thick will slow the striker,and worse yet,the effect will vary with temperature.Breakfree will work,I like Finishline chain lube,in very small amounts,since it will build up.Either is applied after smoothing and burnishing in dry moly.
The very best I've found is a coating of "Gearkote" a baked on moly resin.
The cocking arrangement of the QB puts quite a bit of "tip" on the striker,so surface pressures are a lot higher than you might think.Very smooth surfaces in the tube and on the striker help,but don't remove much metal or the "tip" gets worse.

So I've said once again Silicon Grease is a bad idea when you don't have to use it. Pointing out it's basically sand.

No need to take my word, look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

"Silicone grease is a waterproof grease made by combining a silicone oil with a thickener. Most commonly, the silicone oil is polydimethylsiloxane and the thickener is amorphous fumed silica. Using this formulation, silicone grease is a translucent white viscous paste, with exact properties dependent on the type and proportion of the components."

It goes on to describe intended uses, rubber parts that won't take (real) oil, 0-rings (no movement), laboratory glassware and plumbing (no contamination) and so on.

Modern greases are hydrocarbon oils held in metalic soaps (often Lithium in fact), above we see Silicon grease is usually fumed silica:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_fume

This is basically a waste product we used to vent into the atmosphere and land fills which we now dispose of in concrete. It's reduced quartz.....Silicon dioxide....beach sand. Very very hard small bits with lots of surface area. Not the sort of stuff you'd want to put between sliding surfaces and expect stable, low friction action under loads.

I see no need to put 'microscopic sand' into my gun when I have vastly superior (and cheaper) stuff available.

IMO if you don't need a special silicon property (water/solvent proof, non flamiable, 'food safe', etc.) they should be avoided.

Doug Owen

Tell me Doug, what is about 'Silicone' a polymer, 'Silicon' a glass and 'Silica dioxide' a quartz or sand that has you confused?

D R

Quoting once again, "Most commonly, the silicone oil is polydimethylsiloxane and the thickener is amorphous fumed silica."

Fumed Silica (a component of such 'lubes') is Silicon dioxide...quartz...beach sand.

You do understand that Silicon is a part of Silicon dioxide, right? Stuff they make sandpaper out of?

Again, if it's such a great lube, why isn't it in a new BMW?

Use what you want (although it didn't work very well here, which is why the thread happened), for myself I'll continue to use what the makers use.......

Doug Owen

You're not confused but there is a BIG difference between 'Silicon/Silica dioxide and 'Fumed Silicon'. Think of fumed silicon as microscopic ball bearings! Not near the same as sand paper. For o-rings there is no better lube. I mix about equal amounts of tech-grade moly and either silicone grease or 10W silicone shock oil (even silicone brake fluid will work) plus a tad of my secret sauce. Over kill to the max for sure but I've been using it for years and I'm not about to stop now. Only the 'ware' stops on contact.

Maybe BMW want their cars to wear-out sooner rather than later. I'd would think BMW's use synthetic oil/grease etc. and most likely silicone brake fluid. You can bet they treat all the exposed rubber with silicone.

D R

"Maybe BMW want their cars to wear-out sooner rather than later. I'd would think BMW's use synthetic oil/grease etc. and most likely silicone brake fluid. You can bet they treat all the exposed rubber with silicone."

While I seriously doubt BMW is trying to make their cars wear out fast (based on their free service, long guarantee and history if nothing else....) they do in fact use synthetic oils and grease. Hydrocarbon lubes, not silicone. Just man made mineral oil, more pure than what you'd dig up.

True also that Si based brake fluid is used, no doubt 'Armor All' or simialr on the exposed rubber as well, but then neither of them are lubricants, right? They also use leather on the seats.....

Use what you want of course, and you don't have to take my word for it, but Si based products are a very bad choice for high load steel on steel lubricants. As others have said. Especially if hydrocarbons are already there (a 'oil and water' thing.....makes a big mess).

BTW the silica is far far from 'microscopic ball bearings', it's amorphious (no crystal structure, highly irregular). Flue ash. Huge surface area (which is why it improves concrete so much). It's a *thickener*, not really what you'd want to use as a lubricant if you had a choice. Think "sand".......

Doug Owen

Ok got it. No Silicone. So to sum up I should use real oil or a moly lube. I read some where that some folks mix "One Lube" with Moly grease 1/2 and 1/2. Any one tried this.

Up till now the only place I used Moly was in the trigger.

Jeff Schock
WB9ZPO
QB78 carbine tuned by CO2une,
QB78 Thumb hole stock
AR2078 mild tune by MM

"I read some where that some folks mix "One Lube" with Moly grease 1/2 and 1/2. Any one tried this."

While I haven't used 'One Lube', I have used other oils to thin moly grease out. Moly is really a solid, the grease is normal hydrocarbon grease (as a carrier) with the moly mixed in. This is why some (like what JM sells) are known to hold more moly than others. Less grease, more moly.

I've also used pure moly (known as 'anti scuffing powder' to the Brits) mixed with solvents (like acetone) as a carrier so the solvent would evaporate completely once it had the moly in place.

I see no reason not to try it. If it were mine, I'd strip out the hammer and carefully clean out as much of the Si/oil gum that's in there as I could before hand. I'm not sure moly is needed, there's not a lot of load on the sides of the hammer, but in the manner of chicken soup, 'can't hurt, might help...'.

Good luck.

Doug Owen