I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this board regarding Rev. Wright's views, his comments of late in the media, and how Barack Obama can possibly explain his continuing 20-year allegiance to Rev. Wright, his church and their views.

Huge bonuses for intellectual honesty and original thinking, if indeed this board can rouse itself from its predictable torpor. I say this as someone who hopes Mr. Obama will have a true 'Sr. Souljah' moment not just for his campaign but for the sake of the nation. I'm not happy with any of the three candidates at present but he's clearly got a lot more honesty, sincerity and intelligence than the others. I utterly oppose some of his positions but he's in danger of being tainted by association with this Rev. Crackpot if he doesn't do something soon. What do you think? I'd like to hear what the board has to say. C'mon, don't disappoint! You of all people have a unique point of view on religion, politics, etc., so let it rip!

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Bonus points for the first ones to excuse the Rev whilst vigorously condemning the Religious Right (TM)--if you can't get a bonus for double standards what kind of game is this anyway? Extra points for those who spin conspiracy theories or otherwise attempt to change the subject (but you know what everyone thinks about you, ROFL!). Cherry on top for the best rationalization. Whipped cream and plenty of gas for those with no clue. The rest of you can sit back and read or else listen to the sound of crickets in response to this challenge....free prizes for all! (I've got loads of old AFAKE! magazines!)

Those injecting unrelated issues are automatically disqualified and sentenced to Groundhog Day Watchtower-style. Uh huh. You know exactly what i mean. Humans have nothing on the borg when it comes to slow torture.

*McCain supporters are automatically disqualified for, well, obvious reasons, besides the fact that he bores me, and anyone quoting Ron Paul gets a free chaperone for their next night out, regardless if you're married, single, or whatever. See Groundhog day, above.

**Disclaimer: no one is racist for supporting HRC (offer expires upon next re-Wright of history)

***Disclaimer: No one is sexist for supporting BHO (offer expires upon next re-write of Herstory)

****If you disagree with the rest of us...you know what you are!

John McCain is too old to be President

Barack Obama is too black to be President

Hilary Clinton is too female (I think) to be President.

The only real choice is Cthulhu "Why settle for a lesser evil."

.

Bush...Atilla the Hun would look promising.........Davey

ever said they were offended by things said by the Religious Right? I only ask because you drew a parallel between the two things.

Honestly, I think this whole event has been blown out of proportion by the (liberal?) media. Obama said Wright offended him with his statements, and that he doesn't agree with them. What more can he say? It's stupid.

When George Bush comes out and admits that Billy Graham (who has been a spiritual advisor to him) has said offensive things then the two situations will be similar. But he hasn't, so they aren't.

-Craig

Although I'd agree that, in situations like this, it's fair to apply the 'shoe on the other foot' argument, it's not very convincing in this case.

For the sake of argument, suppose Bush's personal pastor and 'spiritual mentor' for the last 20 years were known to go off on pro-KKK rants in church, denounce vaccines and fluoride in drinking water as part of a plan to sterilize people, etc.---then of course, you'd have to hear strong and unequivocal condemnation of those statements or game over. And condemnation alone would NEVER satisfy partisan critics: there'd be endless 'splainin to do. (Whereas in reality I have no idea who Bush's pastor is...is it graham? my bad. He's offensive but hardly to the degree i just made out).

From listening to Obama, I believe he does NOT subscribe to those views. Wright in effect says he's fibbing by calling Obama's statements 'politics' but I think Wright is just so unhinged he'd say anything.

On a certain level though, it's terribly disappointing and puzzling that someone who seems to have risen about the racial divide spent all those years in such a church. And utterly depressing that every Sunday, for some folks, is a chance to reinforce the worst beliefs about others. I'm an atheist who respects the freedom of conscience of others, but as time goes on, I'm starting to see virtually ALL religion as vile. (And christians may be the worst--what the hell happened to reconciliation and forgiveness? How did it all turn back to hate? Yeah i know about the dubs but they all seem just as bad nowadays. Despicable.)

On a regular basis, I mean. Did Wright say that stuff back when Obama went?

I guess all you can do is take someone at their word in a case like this, Obama has repeatedly distanced himself. There are plenty of mainstream churches attended by politicians (currently in office) that preach hate against gays and the "gay agenda." I see that as comparable to racist statements.

I mean, Billy Graham said (among other things) that Katrina and 9/11 were because we coddle gays and he's made anti-Semitic statements in the past (on tape, with Nixon). And this man still advises presidents!

It's disgusting, and that's why I don't think the Wright thing is an issue- at least Obama recognizes Wright's statements as offensive and has said so.



-Craig

Although Wright was saying pretty nutty stuff right after 9/11--and yes, other preachers also made vile statements like those of Graham. Obama may not have attended recently but he was married there, had his daughters baptized there, etc., etc., so it's not as if he had no idea what kinds of things were being preached at TUCC.

As you know, anti-gay statements from religions across the spectrum are pretty much standard (and Obama is unique in that he has condemned such things--another point in his favor). Sure there are a few 'progressive' churches that don't but they are the exception. On that score I have no idea where Wright stands, but there's not much redeeming about him at this point anyway.

For some, the association of Obama with Wright will be damaging. But fortunately for Obama the timing is excellent: he has the nomination wrapped up but its months before the general--plenty of time for the issue to die down.

Obama repeated comes out and says that Wright's statements are offensive and ridiculous.

I don't recall anyone ever saying that about some of the more mainstream religious leaders out there who have said similarly offensive and absurd statements.

Anyhow, McCain's apparent lack of ties to the religious right is one thing I am very happy about- considering the other Republicans running I think he's probably the one I would have picked (if it was up to me) as the most rational and the least connected to the RR.

-Craig

I would be a republican or theopublican.
That being said there is a question here that bears asking, is there a perfect human? According to Judeo,Christian,Islamic tradition the answer is that all men and women are born into sin. The point would be that we love our friends inspite of themselves just as we are loved by others inspite of ourselves, becuase all humans have failings. One would expect that when comes to something as important as governing our country we would demand adult reasoning. Now I do not know about the rest of America but I have a number of folks I call friend who do not agree with me and I do not agree with them. That does not mean I like them less it merely means we are going bump heads on occasion or learn to let certain things pass or merely not bring them up. This is known as mature behavior. Do what is Mr. Obama to do about Rev. Wright? If Mr Obama is of good and sound character then last thing he will or can do is negate his relationship with Rev. Wright. Yes that stance will never appease those hawkish folks out there who still see America with a "manifest destiny" and a "god given" mandate to spread democracy and american protestantism. The question is whether or not 32% of the US population is going to dictate our postition in the world. The current answer seems to be yes it is. Thus the real point Obama has is that his religious association will never dictate domestic or foreign policy.
JFK had to make the same comment concerning his Catholicism and relationship with Rome and its Pontif. Of course back in that day and age we still believed the measure of man was in what he did not in what he professed to believe.

Tucker

But again it is the absurd and its contradictory life that teaches us. For the mistake is thinking that quantity of experience depends on circumstances of our life when it depends soley on us.

Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus, translated by J. O'Brien, copyright 1955 by Alfred A. Knopf

Obama--again to his credit--is a no nonsense, straight talk kind of guy. I won't say he's never spun anything but he's way better than the ever-triangulating spinmeisters of all time: the clintons.

All sides spin. No need to be left or right for that. Puhleeze. For a smart guy, Tucker, I thought you'd at least acknowledge that.

I was feeling rather snarky and popped off when I should have let well enough alone. Perhaps I should have said that I am so tired of politics which get mired in the personal rather stepping out and addressing the communal concerns. What has happened to focusing on what a person has done in his/her public service in order to take a guess at what their future actions might be? If we had done this with Bush he would not have been elected. The man was/is a seriously bad manager of just about everything he has ever done. Well maybe he was good at abusing drugs, but hey I never hold such a thing for or against anybody. I do like Obama, I feel like he has been fairly straight foreward and direct with everything he has done in the past and I like how he has handled pressure so far. However you were asking if this little fiasco with his minister was going to sink him and I have to say I do not know.
I do know that there are folks out there collecting as much muck as possible to throw at him. The other thing I know is that those who are listening to him see his response to this situation as being handled as well as it possibly can be dealt with. I worry that he maybe perceived as another Adlai Stevenson. Still the American voters may feel that is actually time to elect some one who can comprehend the complex issues our society faces.
I am just not holding my breath on it though.

Tucker

But again it is the absurd and its contradictory life that teaches us. For the mistake is thinking that quantity of experience depends on circumstances of our life when it depends soley on us.

Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus, translated by J. O'Brien, copyright 1955 by Alfred A. Knopf

most Americans see the issues as complex. I think half of us (anyway) are FOXNews thinkers and wouldn't recognize a nuance if they sat on it.

but with the way prices are soaring i could use some free stuff (haha...not the abdominal type either)

and the whipped cream will do nicely with some cheesecake i just made, so send 'er over. because i have no clue about US politics except that i think everyone will be happier once George W is gone!

i've watched some interviews of George W on youtube and they make me want to punch him square in the chops. the only consolation is "hey, at least i'm not married to the guy" bwahaha

 

since we're getting all heated up over politics...what do y'all think about the SPP (Security & Prosperity Partnership)???

 

If I was an American, i'd vote for Obama cos he's the cutest. As for your conditons, i'm crying from laughing, the terms everyone has for things to do with the borg crack me up. Love the AFAKE mags, groundhog day- i'd say penology originated with the wbts. Your a funny bloke, maybe you should go for the vote, you could all do with a president with a sense of humour could'nt you !

But I was so impressed with Obama's reaction today--he's got my vote, my heartfelt support, and my donation to boot.

I've never voted D before for president (please, try not to faint) but this is a true statesman, sadly a rarity nowadays. Yeah i may bitch and moan about policy differences but what he offers is so compelling...I'm sold. The other two, in spite of their abilities, just can't compare.

Now can the dems please get on with it and end the nomination process? Sheesh!

Doc...now I know the time of the end is near.......Davey

I am impressed by your ability to be non-partisan and look at the candidate that you like best from the entire field. Most people can't do that.

-Craig

Where do I send the granola and Birkenstocks?

What if Hillary becomes his running mate?

For the past twenty years the presidential election has felt like making a choice between lesser evils. I am with you Doc about Obama, he is the first national politician I have ever donated to. While I am sure he has his own issues and I also do not agree with him on everything, he is a statesman and of presidential caliber and even more importantly voting Obama seems like a vote for something different.

Tucker

But again it is the absurd and its contradictory life that teaches us. For the mistake is thinking that quantity of experience depends on circumstances of our life when it depends soley on us.

Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus, translated by J. O'Brien, copyright 1955 by Alfred A. Knopf

I have been listening to Obama and I like the way he has reacted to the controversy, he has handled this very well....I also am a republican BUT I have never voted the party..I vote the person, and it is very clear McCain is way to old and in over his head.

I'm voting Nixon