Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines!

OK, we're three regattas into the season so your engines are already started, running, and in some cases, raced.

For those who don't know how this ranking system works, the Top 10 teams at every regatta are awarded points for their overall placement. 1st Place is worth the most points, 10th place the least. A competitive multiplier is applied to the results depending on the level of competition at the regatta. In determining this multiplier, both the overall number of teams in attendance and their overall quality are taken into account, but quality wins out over quantity. This is the only subjective part of the rankings. Otherwise, the numbers speak for themselves

Points table
Place Points
1. 32
2. 28
3. 24
4. 20
5. 16
6. 12
7. 8
8. 6
9. 4
10. 2

Competitive Multiplier
0.5 Small/Local
1.0 Normal
1.5 Very Competitive

For example, TIDBRF Corporate and Community Divisions are considered as if they are separate festivals, and both are rated a 1.0 This is the baseline. Smaller festivals like the GWN 3000m race, Woodstock or Stratford would be rate 0.5 Intensely competitive regattas like GWN or the NORAMs would be rated a 1.5

For the season, a teams top 5 results will be included in their overall total. This rewards teams that race more frequently, but you can't be #1 based on volume alone.

The first rankings of the year will follow shortly.

Any questions or comments are welcome.

Here are the first results from the 2004 GP Rankings.

Out to an early lead is the Big Fish team, by virtue of racing in two regattas. Regatta winners Mayfair and the X-Paddling Collective are close behind. Things can really change over the next few weeks as we enter the busy part of the season.

Top 27 Teams

Rnk PTS Team Name
1.. 30. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
2.. 16. X-Paddling Collective
2.. 16. Mayfair Predators
4.. 14. Piranhas DBC
4.. 14. Scotia Spitfires
6.. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
6.. 12. Hammerheads
6.. 12. Mofo's
9.. 10. RBC Royal Dragons
9.. 10. Baycrest Blades
9.. 10. Paddling in Unisen
12.. 8. Toronto Area Dragons
12.. 8. BMO Investorline First Dragons
12.. 8. Jetstart
15.. 6. CIBC A
15.. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
15.. 6. Burload Water Rats
18.. 4. Shogun Warriors
18.. 4. Fast and Furious
18.. 4. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
18.. 4. Gators
22.. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
22.. 3. Smoke on the Water
22.. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
25.. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
25.. 2. Monsoon
27.. 1. Paddlers Anonymous
27.. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish

UW Fast and the Furious were C division champs in Milton, well ahead of Monsoon and they aren't ranked. What gives?

The fact that I am blind is what gives.

(sigh)

total disregard for quebec teams...

Who were the top five teams at the end of last year?

There was no intention to disregard Quebec teams. Wong's were even rated 2nd overall last year.

What I have missed so far in terms of Eastern Canada is the Onake festival, and given the calibre of the teams that attended this event its results should be included. I'll work that in for the next version.

For the person that was wondering about last year's Top 5, I'll do you one better and give you last year's Top 10:

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 131 Mayfair Predators
2. 120 Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
3. 94 Imperial Dragons
4. 84 X-Paddling Collective
5. 60 Mississauga Canoe Club
6. 58 Bytown Paddlers
7. 48 RBC Royal Dragons
8. 47 Piranhas DBC
9. 45 Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
10. 42 Big Fish Interactive Inc.

With two more festivals concluded, the mighty Wong's DBC vaults to the top, with the X-Paddling Collective hot on their heels.

Onake Festival was given a competitive multiplier of 0.5, Pickering 1.5

All teams that have earned a point so far are listed.

Top 40

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 64. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 58. X-Paddling Collective
3. 44. Scotia Spitfires
4. 36. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
4. 36. Hammerheads
4. 36. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
7. 30. Verdun
8. 16. Mayfair Predators
9. 14. Cascades Canoe Club
9. 14. Piranhas DBC
11. 12. Imperial Dragons
11. 12. Mofo's
11. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
14. 10. Baycrest Blades
14. 10. BMO Dragons - Montreal
14. 10. Paddling in Unisen
14. 10. RBC Royal Dragons
18. 9. GG Draggons
19. 8. BMO Investorline First Dragons
19. 8. Isshin A
19. 8. Jetstart
19. 8. Toronto Area Dragons
23. 6. Burload Water Rats
23. 6. CIBC A
23. 6. Montreal Thunder
23. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
27. 4. Action Sport Physio
27. 4. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
27. 4. Fast and Furious
27. 4. Gators
27. 4. Shogun Warriors
32. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
32. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
32. 3. Smoke on the Water
32. 3. Tempest
32. 3. Wongs Immortal Dragons
37. 2. Monsoon
37. 2. Point Claire Dragon Flyers
37. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
40. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish
40. 1. Paddle Demons
40. 1. Paddlers Anonymous

Is this an exercise in math, I see teams at the bottom end of the rankings that have defeated teams at the top in head to head competition!

Where is the credibility to the system, you may want to rethink this, even a comments piece wouldn't hurt, remember, some of the very good teams only do a couple of festivals but they dominate those that go to alot of festivals.

Unless of course you aren't trying to identify the best teams, merely the teams that play more than others?

That's why there's straight rankings, adjusted rankings and power rankings. Power ranking is the one that I look at. Ranking is more art than exact science since not all teams compete at the same events. Heck if you ONLY paddle in the most competitive events and always placed 11th, you wouldn't even be ranked as per formula, because only the top 10 get points.

What I like to know is when is the spreadsheet going to be updated, so the straight/adjusted/power rankings can also get updated for this year.

Teams that race more get more points. Simple as that. This system is patterned somewhat after the F1 racing system, or the British Dragon Boat League system. You get points for placing 1-10 in any regatta with your top 5 scores counting towards your total.

It's possible to have a team rank ahead of another team that they have lost to, if they have more points. But strong teams that place high in competitive festivals will always have an edge. (look at MCC last year, they only entered two regatta's but they placed 5th overall).

This isn't the Power Rankings. This doesn't say that the 6th place team could beat the 10th place team. This is more like a league, and you can't win if you don't play.

It's all for fun and a different perspective.

That's the point. If MCC were forced to race in all the races that everyone else did then maybe they wouldn't do as well because their athletes wouldn't be available and their roster and results would reflect that. They race only when they know they can put together a good crew. Not that I'm blaming them but a crew like the Wongs always goes after top competition and also does well.

A crew is rewarded for racing in bigger more competitive events. A crew that only races in smaller events and always wins will not do as well as a crew who only races in big events and places 3rd or 4th.

How does the size of the event determine that it will be a more competitive event? For the top ten or so teams, it really doesn't matter how big the regatta is - even at the Island or GWN, they're still only racing competitively against the same few teams, the rest of the teams (however many there are) being more or less irrelevant for competition purposes. It's not as if you have to race more races at the large regattas to make finals, either.

it's not really the size but the competition.

If the Screamon Deamons go to Woodstock and win against crews like Fox 22 it can't be as significant as Wongs going to GWN and beating the IMPs. Therefore Wongs and IMPs for that matter should get more credit than Screamon Deamons and Fox 22.

Note: I know Screamon Deamons and Fox 22 no longer exsist. It was just an example.

So...after the Lachine festival, where do teams rank now? Any idea?

what is GP? what does it stand for?
why are some teams not mentioned at all?

It stands for Grand Prix.

To be mentioned, you have had to place in the top 10 at a regatta. The first post exlpains more.

The problem with the rankings system is that it affects the festivals that teams select. A top team may bypass a certain festival because it won't help them in the points race. This is not quite fair for new up and coming festivals who may be doing things properly yet are restricted in growing their festival.

I don't think too many of Jackie's teams will ever be on this list.

That's assuming any of the Top Teams plans their schedule around these rankings. I don't think they really care about these rankings. I know most top teams go to where the other top teams go. An event doesn't have to be big to attract top teams. i.e. Lachine.

Very strong Top 6 teams earns Lachine a 0.5 competitive multiplier.

New rankings:

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 80. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 72. X-Paddling Collective
3. 44. Scotia Spitfires
4. 40. Verdun
5. 36. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
5. 36. Hammerheads
5. 36 Sudbury Team Chiropractic
8. 28. Mayfair Predators
9. 16. BMO Dragons - Montreal
10. 14. Cascades Canoe Club
10. 14. Piranhas DBC
12. 12. Imperial Dragons
12. 12. Mofo's
12. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
15. 10. Blades
15. 10. Paddling in Unisen
15. 10. RBC Royal Dragons
18. 9. GG Draggons
19. 8. BMO Investorline First Dragons
19. 8. Bytown Paddlers
19. 8. Isshin A
19. 8. Jetstart
19. 8. Toronto Area Dragons
24. 7. Wongs Immortal Dragons
25. 6. Burloak Water Rats
25. 6. CIBC A
25. 6. Montreal Thunder
25. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
25. 6. Verdun B
30. 4. Action Sport Physio
30. 4. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
30. 4. Fast and Furious
30. 4. Gators
30. 4. Shogun Warriors
35. 3. Alliance
35. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
35. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
35. 3. Phoenix
35. 3. Smoke on the Water
35. 3. Tempest
41. 2. Monsoon
41. 2. Point Claire Dragon Flyers
41. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
44. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish
44. 1. Paddle Demons
44. 1. Paddlers Anonymous

Due to a lack of competitive teams, the Guelph Dragon Boat Festival will not be included in the GP Rankings.

Due to the lack of relevance, the GP rankings system will no longer be considered even close to reality.

While the effort is admirable, the validity is very weak given the inffrequency of events and the inconsistency between and within events (lane variation).

Attempts to quantify are wasted.

As the season progresses and most teams get 5 races under their belts this list should get closer to reality. It's already starting to sort itself out.

Now that I looked at the results more closely I have this observation and suggestion:

At a small regatta like Stoufville it's very easy to come in 10th place and make it on this list. At Pickering it's quite difficult even to make 11th place. With GP rankings the weak 10th place Stoufville team would be rated higher than the much better 11th place Pickering team.

The competitive multiplier idea helps normalize scores based on festival difficulty level but I'd like to see the system also include more teams for more difficult festivals. For example:

competitive multiplier of 0.5 -> award points to top 10 teams
competitive multiplier of 1.0 -> award points to top 15 teams
competitive multiplier of 1.5 -> award points to top 20 teams

I think this change would make the results closer to reality.

Well I hope It sorts itself out by the end of the islands. Some teams up there (and i will not name them b/c it will just start another frenzy that it doesn't deserve to be started) should be ranked so high, and even if they are ranked that high the company the keep along with them is very insultng

Lachine should not be given a competitive multiplier of 0.5 . .. The festival will end up being even more competitive then montreal and far more competitive then ottawa. with 5-6 top ranked teams it was far more competitive then a milton, onake or stouffville

Pickering, the island and GWN are all 1.5s

Ottawa, MTL, Lachine should be 1s.

When will the new rankings be posted now that the Island festival results are in?

Will the results reflect the fact that Cascades won the race even though they were racing 'exhibition'?

"Won" the race ??
The Lanes deepen to the outside. There is some wonderful areas
in the middle of lanes two/three that grab your boat halfway down.
If Cascade had been slotted in Lane 2 or 5, the race outcome would
have been different.

Will the GP Rankings reflect a previous post to include the top fifteen teams, in either Division ??

Good grief. Get off the guy's back. He's doing a lot of work and a good job with the rankings and as he said it's all for fun. No one dies because of it. If you don't like the GP Rankings then don't follow them or come up with your own system. At the very least, shut-up.

Here are the new GP Rankings with the results of the 2004 TIDBRF included. Corporate and Community Divisions have been ranked as separate regattas, both with a multiplier of 1.0

Results for BMO Montreal and Cascades are not included as these were "exhibtion" entries in the Corporate and Community divisions, respectively.

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Some are very insightful, and may be used in future versions of the rankings, but for now the formula will remain unchanged.

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 80. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 72. Scotia Spitfires
2. 72. X-Paddling Collective
4. 64. Hammerheads
5. 52. Mayfair Predators
6. 48. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
7. 40. Verdun
8. 36. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
9. 35. Tempest
10. 34. Piranhas DBC
11. 32. Imperial Dragons
11. 32. Mississauga Canoe Club
13. 26. Blades
13. 26. RBC Royal Dragons
15. 24. Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
16. 16. BMO Dragons - Montreal
16. 16. BMO Investorline First Dragons
18. 14. Cascades Canoe Club
19. 12. Mofo's
19. 12. Out of Nowhere
19. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
22. 10. Paddling in Unisen
23. 9. GG Draggons
24. 8. Bytown Paddlers
24. 8. CIBC A
24. 8. Isshin A
24. 8. Jetstart
24. 8. Thrusting Mojos
24. 8. Toronto Area Dragons
30. 7. Wongs Immortal Dragons
31. 6. Burloak Water Rats
31. 6. Hanalei
31. 6. Montreal Thunder
31. 6. Rent Shield Water Dragons
31. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
31. 6. Verdun B
37. 4. Action Sport Physio
37. 4. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
37. 4. Fast and Furious
37. 4. Gators
37. 4. General Motors - Driving Force
37. 4. Shogun Warriors
37. 4. TCBA Jr. RipTide
44. 3. Alliance
44. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
44. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
44. 3. Phoenix
44. 3. Smoke on the Water
49. 2. Monsoon
49. 2. Point Claire Dragon Flyers
49. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
49. 2. TEMS Hydrophobics
53. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish
53. 1. Paddle Demons
53. 1. Paddlers Anonymous

Just a quick THANKS to the people who actually take the time to calculate the rankings. I always enjoy knowing where my team is ranked. Your work is appreciated by many (whether they agree with the scores/rankings or not).
Thanks again!

The Grand Prix rankings have been updated to include the results from the Ottawa Dragon Boat Festival. This regatta has been assigned a competitivie multiplier of 1.0

The Dragon Blades have been included as a separate entity from the (Baycrest) Blades.

All teams that have earned at least a point this year are included below.

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 80. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 72. Scotia Spitfires
2. 72. X-Paddling Collective
4. 64. Hammerheads
5. 56. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
6. 52. Mayfair Predators
6. 52. Verdun
8. 48. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
9. 42. Cascades Canoe Club
10. 35. Tempest
11. 34. Piranhas DBC
12. 32. Imperial Dragons
12. 32. Mississauga Canoe Club
12. 32. Bytown Paddlers
12. 32. Events Alive
16. 26. Blades
16. 26. RBC Royal Dragons
18. 24. Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
19. 16. BMO Dragons - Montreal
19. 16. BMO Investorline First Dragons
19. 16. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
22. 15. Wongs Immortal Dragons
23. 12. Mofo's
23. 12. Out of Nowhere
23. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
26. 10. Paddling in Unisen
27. 9. GG Draggons
28. 8. CIBC A
28. 8. Isshin A
28. 8. Jetstart
28. 8. Thrusting Mojos
28. 8. Toronto Area Dragons
33. 7. Phoenix
34. 6. Burloak Water Rats
34. 6. Hanalei
34. 6. Montreal Thunder
34. 6. Rent Shield Water Dragons
34. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
34. 6. Verdun B
34. 6. Nepean Masters
41. 4. Action Sport Physio
41. 4. Fast and Furious
41. 4. Gators
41. 4. General Motors - Driving Force
41. 4. Shogun Warriors
41. 4. TCBA Jr. RipTide
47. 3. Alliance
47. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
47. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
47. 3. Smoke on the Water
51. 2. Monsoon
51. 2. Point Claire Dragon Flyers
51. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
51. 2. TEMS Hydrophobics
51. 2. Asian Dragons
56. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish
56. 1. Paddle Demons
56. 1. Paddlers Anonymous

Here is the latest GP Rankings update, including results from the Niagara CANAM regatta.

This regatta has been asigned a competitive multiplier of 0.5 due to it's competitive nature but very small size. Although the Top 6 teams represent a very comptetive group, the lack of sufficient teams to form a complete "B" final, or "A" Consolation, makes it impossible to grade it any higher.

Notable: X-Paddlers move into top spot with their fourth point scoring result.

New Rankings

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 84. X-Paddling Collective
2. 80. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
3. 78. Hammerheads
4. 72. Scotia Spitfires
5. 68. Mayfair Predators
6. 56. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
7. 52. Verdun
8. 48. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
9. 42. Cascades Canoe Club
10. 35. Tempest
11. 34. Blades
11. 34. Piranhas DBC
13. 32. Bytown Paddlers
13. 32. Events Alive
13. 32. Imperial Dragons
13. 32. Mississauga Canoe Club
13. 32. RBC Royal Dragons
18. 24. Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
19. 16. BMO Dragons - Montreal
19. 16. BMO Investorline First Dragons
19. 16. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
19. 16. Hanalei
23. 15. Wongs Immortal Dragons
24. 12. Mofo's
24. 12. Out of Nowhere
24. 12. Toronto Area Dragons
24. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons
28. 10. Paddling in Unisen
29. 9. GG Draggons
30. 8. CIBC A
30. 8. Isshin A
30. 8. Jetstart
30. 8. Thrusting Mojos
34. 7. Phoenix
34. 7. Shogun Warriors
36. 6. Burloak Water Rats
36. 6. Montreal Thunder
36. 6. Nepean Masters
36. 6. Rent Shield Water Dragons
36. 6. St. Joseph's Saints
36. 6. Verdun B
42. 4. Action Sport Physio
42. 4. Fast and Furious
42. 4. Gators
42. 4. General Motors - Driving Force
42. 4. TCBA Jr. RipTide
47. 3. Alliance
47. 3. BMO Aggressive Dragons
47. 3. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
47. 3. Smoke on the Water
51. 2. Asian Dragons
51. 2. Monsoon
51. 2. Point Claire Dragon Flyers
51. 2. TD/CT Twin Dragons
51. 2. TEMS Hydrophobics
56. 1. Meeting House Deisel Fish
56. 1. Paddle Demons
56. 1. Paddlers Anonymous

a minimum number of teams would be in order. This was like a points gift. Whatever

Why not stop at the top 30!

you pretty much got points for entering. Giving it a weighting of .5 makes no difference. Still free points.

Why shouldn't BMO and Cascades results count? They were labelled "exhibition" so that they would not be eligible for the prizes (see Cascades First place finish). They both earned they spots, BMO placed 6th overall that week-end in Corp. and Cascades placed 3rd or 4th in Comm. They both qualified for the finals so their finishing positions should count towards the rankings, don't ya think?

BMO Montreal was 7th, IIRC.

Classless stupidity should not be rewarded.

What's the next festival that qualifies for an update?

Because the use of a competitive multiplier can limit the effect of small regattas on the overall score, almost any regatta can qualify for points. The only exception made to this rule so far has been Guelph, since almost no teams from the familiar ranking/travelling cirlces attended.

Subury, for instance, will be used in the rankings at a multiplier of 0.5 due to having a fairly strong top 6, but not much past that. No insult intended.

Hamilton may or may not be inlcuded once the results are analysed. Waterloo and Montreal will almost certainly be used.

More to follow.

Any ideas as to when we'll be able to get updated rankings? We're all curious as to how things have changed with recent festivals. Thanks.

Here are the updated Grand Prix Rankings including the results from Sudbury, Hamilton, Montreal and Waterloo.

St. Catherines was not used due to a lack of competitive teams.

Sudbury, Hamilton and Waterloo were assigned competitive multipliers of 0.5
Montreal received a multiplier of 1.0

Screamin' Mofos were counted as a separate entity from the Mofos. (Waterloo)

Of note, Wong's has moved into First Place overall, Imperial Dragons has entered the Top 10, Verdun has reached the 5 race Cap, and the GTDBC Masters/Seniors crew has made their debut tied for 15th place due to their win in Montreal.

Top 36 Crews listed.

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 108. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 84. X-Paddling Collective
3. 78. Hammerheads
4. 72. Scotia Spitfires
4. 72. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
4. 72. Verdun
7. 68. Mayfair Predators
8. 60. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
9. 56. Imperial Dragons
10. 51. Tempest
11. 46. Bytown Paddlers
12. 42. Cascades Canoe Club
13. 34. Blades
13. 34. Piranhas DBC
15. 32. Events Alive
15. 32. GTDBC Senior Mixed B
15. 32. Mississauga Canoe Club
15. 32. RBC Royal Dragons
19. 24. Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
19. 24. Jetstart
19. 24. Paddling in Unisen
22. 22. BMO Dragons - Montreal
23. 19. Wongs Immortal Dragons
24. 16. Action Sport Physio
24. 16. BMO Investorline First Dragons
24. 16. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
24. 16. Hanalei
24. 16. Pacific Reach
29. 14. Scream'n Mofos
30. 13. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
31. 12. 5-10 Dragons
31. 12. Fox 22
31. 12. Mofo's
31. 12. Out of Nowhere
31. 12. Toronto Area Dragons
31. 12. U of T University College - Water Dragons

verdun's got two teams... make sure you don't mix them up.

Here is the latest update to the GP Rankings. Results from the Woodstock festival, Summer Sensation and Summer Sizzler have been included, all at a competitive multiplier of 0.5

Summer Sizzler results are based on League placing, not the Open Knockout. Sorry Sudbury, but only one set of results could be included.

Names for the GTDBC Seniors teams have been flipped. The top GTDBC Senior team is referred to as "A", the second team as "B" regardless of what they were called at the regatta.

Top 35 Teams Listed:

Rnk Pts Team Name
1. 108. Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
2. 84. Mayfair Predators
2. 84. Sudbury Team Chiropractic
2. 84. X-Paddling Collective
5. 78. Hammerheads
6. 72. Scotia Spitfires
6 72. Verdun
8. 70. Imperial Dragons
9. 60. Big Fish Interactive Inc.
10. 59. Tempest
11. 48. GTDBC Senior Mixed A
12. 46. Bytown Paddlers
13. 42. Cascades Canoe Club
14. 38. Piranhas DBC
15. 37. Blades
16. 32. Events Alive
16. 32. Mississauga Canoe Club
16. 32. RBC Royal Dragons
19. 30. Jetstart
20. 29. Castek Inc.- Chaos I
21. 24. Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
21. 24. Paddling in Unisen
23. 22. BMO Dragons - Montreal
24. 20. Rent Shield Water Dragons
25. 19. Wongs Immortal Dragons
26. 18. GTDBC Senior Mixed A
26. 18. St. Joseph's Saints
28. 16. Action Sport Physio
28. 16. BMO Investorline First Dragons
28. 16. Dragon Blades (Mixed)
28. 16. Hanalei
28. 16. Pacific Reach
33. 14. Scream'n Mofos
33. 14. Stratford Golden Plate Warriors
35. 13. Mofo's

Surprised to see the GGDRAGONS have fallen off your original top 30, since that listing they beat XPaddlers in North Bay and upset both San Diego and San Francisco in Los Angeles??

Keep in mind that this is not the Power Rankings. The Rankings team could include out of country regattas in their Power Rankings if they felt so inclined, but the Grand Prix Rankings looks only at the Eastern Canada ciruit of regattas.

Unfortunately for G&G their only qualified festival result was Pickering, where they placed 8'th. A strong result, but not enough points compared to teams that have competed in multiple qualified festivals. North Bay did not qualify due to a lack of competitive teams, aside from the X-Paddlers.

Here are the latest rankings, taking the GWN regatta into account. This major regatta has been asigned a competitive multiplier of 1.5

There are some big changes at the top of the list, as Sudbury Chiropractic takes over the Number 1 position by virtue of the win at GWN. Mayfair retains the second spot, while the inactive Wongs Dragon Slayers are pushed down to third. Also inactive, the X-Paddling Collective continues to drop down the top 10.

A number of teams, including Mayfair, Verdun and Big Fish, have now exceeded the 5 race limit, and will only have their best 5 point scoring results included.

Here is the new Top 35

Rnk Pts Team Name
1 … 132 Sudbury Team Chiropractic
2 … 114 Mayfair Predators
3 … 108 Wong's Dragon Boat Club - Dragonslayers
4 … 96 Hammerheads
4 … 96 Scotia Beach
4 … 96 Verdun
7 … 84 X-Paddling Collective
8 … 70 Imperial Dragons
9 … 68 Tempest
10 … 66 Big Fish Interactive Inc.
11 … 48 GTDBC Senior Mixed A
12 … 46 Bytown Paddlers
12 … 46 Hanalei
14 … 44 Piranhas DBC
15 … 42 Cascades Canoe Club
16 … 40 Blades
17 … 32 Events Alive
17 … 32 Mississauga Canoe Club
17 … 32 RBC Royal Dragons
20 … 30 Jetstart
21 … 29 Castek Inc.- Chaos I
22 … 24 Huron Kayak and Modern Canoeing
22 … 24 Paddling in Unisen
24 … 22 BMO Dragons - Montreal
25 … 20 Rent Shield Water Dragons
26 … 19 Wongs Immortal Dragons
27 … 18 GTDBC Senior Mixed A
27 … 18 St. Joseph's Saints
29 … 16 Action Sport Physio
29 … 16 BMO Investorline First Dragons
29 … 16 Dragon Blades (Mixed)
29 … 16 Pacific Reach
33 … 14 Scream'n Mofos
33 … 14 Stratford Golden Plate Warriors
35 … 13 Mofo's

Thanks for doing this.

Yes, very interesting alternative to Power rankings. Please consider a slightly modified method for next year (similar to that proposed much earlier). Here's my suggestion. It's not perfect either.

Very competitive regattas (weighting 1.5): include top 20
Normal regattas (weighting 1): include top 10
Small/local regattas (weighting 0.5): include top 5

Not sure how scores would work with this system. Maybe:
This way, it's equivalent if someone comes in 5th at a small festival, 9.5 (yes OK it's weird) at a medium, and 19 at a large fest. Also equivalent: 1st at a small, 5th at a medium, and 13th at a large. It's weird, but Excel is easy.

Large_Medium_Small
1. 32___32___32
2. 28___28___24
3. 24___24___18
4. 22___20___12
5. 18___16___6
6. 16___12
7. 14___8
8. 13___6
9. 12___4
10. 11__2
11. 10
12. 9
13. 8
14. 7
15. 6
16. 5
17. 4
18. 3
19. 2
20. 1

I think Nerdgirl has an interesting point. I like the idea of the GP rankings but it does seem a little uneven not to count at least top 20 results at really big/competitive regattas.

For instance, look at the poor Mofos, stuck all the way back there in last place despite doing really well in Montreal and GWN.

It would be interesting to see how the results would flip around (maybe?) using Nerdgirl's system.

And what of Unagi?

hmmmmmmmmmm.........Wongs 3rd?????? Is it with or without Power 'Smarties???? Please let us know

Ok, now my brain hurts. The system I suggested and the current one both seem to reward frequency of racing as much as placement. Ranking dude mentioned that several teams will now only have their top five rankings count. The other system gets around that by just taking average placement and only counting a few regattas, which discounts the achievement of getting 10th at GWN vs. winning Port Dover (except Port Dover isn't counted of course). What now?

What about the system I suggested previously, with the addition of dividing by (weight1 + weight2 + weight3 etc.)? So 5th at GWN and 1st in Port Dover would get you (1.5*18 + 32*0.5)/(1.5 + 0.5) = 21.5. Herm. But then you're kind of penalised for winning small regattas. I give up. Any other ideas? Maybe adjusting the points given per placement would deal with that. But someone else has to suggest the alternative.

Thank you for your suggestions. Some of them are certainly worth considering.

One point to consider is that some regattas can be large but may not have many competitive teams, while others are small, but are highly competitive. Compare Ottawa or Sudbury to last year's North American Club Crew Championships for example (and no offense intended to any of the teams in Ottawa or Sudbury).

So I think the use of competitive multipliers is still a good one, but your idea of scoring points for more or less teams is also good.

Maybe I will incorporate these ideas into next year's rankings.

I hear ya. It's a tough job, and could give a statistician migraines. Thanks for putting all the effort in.

But the single most obvious flaw is still that you subjectively weight the value for each regatta.

Figure out a way to give the events a weighting based on the teams attending the event (IE the true difficulty of finishing high) and then you have the real deal.

I worked it all out two years ago and simply never got around to developing a working model because mine was quite complex. I am sure you could set up a simplified version if you put your mind to it.

Cheers

Poor Mofos?

Bottom of the pack is about right for that them. They suck.

What's the difference between these two teams?

33 … 14 Scream'n Mofos
35 … 13 Mofo's

Yes, another compliment for your rankings! When I look at your list, it really make sense to me. I'm sick of seeing MCC and Huron & Kayak at the top of the list (even though "power rankings" may be subjective) when they raced only once in the year. I really like to see those dragonboat teams which actually race several times in regattas and do well to be up there.

So when I see SCC, Mayfair and Wong's...these are the "true" dragonboat teams who worked hard and it deserved to be the "best" dragonboat teams.

Changed my mind about the averaging thing. Besides not working, you SHOULD reward frequency of racing. Schumacher wouldn't have won the F1 drivers' championship if he'd only showed up to one race. This not only rewards performance, but participation in dragon boating. Kudos!

btw, it sounds to me like Screamin' Mofos are a joint effort team (Screamin' Demons and Mofos together?).

yah i agree with rewarding teams who are participating in alot of festivals and placing consistently such as Sudbury .. but if u have teams like MCC and Huron who come back once or twice a year and kick everybody's ass .. What can u do. They just may be the class of the field . You cant do nothing about it. I'm not a flattie but hey if u can't beat'em join'em

I spent some time thinking about this on my way home from work Friday night (I do most of my best thinking on the 407) and it occured to me that there's room for both the Power Rankings and the GP rankings as they both serve different purposes.

Oddly, I (like Nerdgirl) also thought about it in terms of F1 (must the GP thing). Micheal Schumacher would without a doubt be ranked the number one F1 driver in the world. However, if Ferrari decided that was good enough for them and chose to skip a pile of races, they (probably) couldn't win either the drivers' or constructors' championships.

Likewise, there is room for MCC (for example) to be ranked as the best team in the East (Power Ranking) with a completely different team winning the "championship" (GP rankings), like Sudbury (for example).

Viewed in this light, I think the GP rankings should be expanded to act as a kind of "Eastern Cup." The Power Rankings could be the "Eastern Rankings" and something like the NCCC could be the "Eastern Championship." Moutain biking and skiing have similar formats and it works well enough for them.

It could be really neat. Some teams would be content with a #1 ranking while others would race every regatta possible to earn Cup points. Others yet might focus the entire season on doing well at the championship.

It's not like I have any power to decide these things but it's fun to run it up the flagpole.

This thread inspired me to go back and finish a project I started over an extended summer vacation. This being my first year of competitive paddling, I started surfing the web to learn about teams and festivals - and I just kept going and going... It seems there are an awful lot of you - err us - out there. The rankings on the forum are a heck of a lot of fun, so I took my own whack at it, plus a stab at the problem of mathematically weighing festivals according to who was in them. So here's a sample, just for fun...

The system is simplistic, but relies on masses of data (no festival is too small). The results for each team at a given festival are compared against their average placing, weighed according to festival size. This generates one multiplier for the score of every team in the festival (1/placing*multiplier). I use a one-year rolling average to give an overall rating for the team.

Festivals multipliers look like this (top 6):

NACCC 2003 2.42
Pickering 2.04
GWN 1.96
Montreal 1.67
Ottawa 1.40
TIDBRFcom 1.33
Sudbury 1.31

Some clustering is reflected in the numbers around Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa. I suspect the TIDBRF multiplier gets somewhat depressed because of comparisons with Pickering and GWN. Montreal and Ottawa don't send many teams to those races.

The individual team ratings get used for scoring points. Total up the ratings for every team that you finished ahead of to get a running GP type of score. Pick the top victories (I like top 10) for a power ranking sort of approach. Top 15 using these methods:

Power rankings style:
1) Wong Dragonslayers 9.2
2) MCC-Flexogan 8.3
3) SCC Chiropractic 7.1
4) Mayfair Predators 7.0
5) Bytown Paddlers 6.8
6) GTDBC Senior A 6.6
7) X-Paddling 6.0
8) GTDBC Mixed 5.9
9) Verdun Adrenaline 5.6
10)RBC Royal Dragons 5.4
11)Hammerheads 5.3
12)Piranhas 4.9
13)Imperial Dragons 4.9
14)Events Alive 4.9
15)Cascade Draveurs 4.2

GP rankings style:
1) SCC Chiropractic 32.9
2) Wong Dragonslayers 31.9
3) Verdun Adrenaline 29.0
4) Hammerheads 25.5
5) Mayfair Predators 25.1
6) Tempest 23.3
7) Piranhas 21.8
8) Big Fish 21.5
9) Jetstart 19.4
10)Imperial Dragons 18.7
11)Bytown Paddlers 18.3
12)Blades 18.2
13)X-Paddling 17.7
14)Mofos 17.3
15)Hanalei 17.0

Downside (aside from me making a long-winded boring post) is sheer volume - 800+ teams, 30 competitions, and counting. Easy to make errors (hopefully nothing major) and I've probably confused a couple dozen teams (how many Dragon Flies/Flys/Flyers can southern Ontario hold?). On the upside, a spreadsheet takes care of all the ranking without any thinking on my part (a very good thing). Also, anyone and everyone gets ranked, so I can discover, say, Flying Unagi ranked at 109th in both power rankings and total points scored (or is that a downside as well).

That's a great way to come up with the otherwise subjective festival multiplier!

While your Festival weighting looks good. IE. I think they are ranked in the correct order. I am confused that the resulting rankings look off. How does RBC get so high and the IMPs so low? The list of teams missing is pretty long as well. I guess it is just a sample and I shouldn't be so detailed. (notice I resisted the urge to say Anal... DOH, said it.)

What ranking would TIDBRF Corp have gotten?

You also need to take into account the size of the festival somehow. As someone posted earlier, if you reduce the points available to be awarded for a smaller festival that makes more sense, but this also cannot