Maks, just curious...

you mentioned testing paddling/pulling water as a more accurate measure than all these so called fitness measures, but I imagine there must have been some sort of correlation along the way?

We're there surprises, i.e a very fit person with paddling experince who pulled no water and had a bad time or a seemingly unfit person who blew everyone away?

Just curious, I advoctae both measures for testing asopposed to choosing one over the other

It's all about pulling the boat. Regardless of how fit a person is, if they don't know how to sprint on a oc-1, they will not know how to sprint on a dragon boat.

Oc-1 doesn't have the same turbulent water as A db, so imagine when the FIT paddler sits on a dragon boat and feels no water.

I say do trials in a C-1 and kick out all the fucking dragon boaters and marathoners so the team can win

Were you having trouble finding a descriptor for dboaters why you opted for profanity? Is this supposed to make your point more valid? Perhaps a little more time in school and less on the water would've been more helpful...

"I say do trials in a C-1 and kick out all the fucking dragon boaters and marathoners so I can make the team, because I can balance a C-1 but I can't really paddle for shit"

flatwater jackass, your making us look bad...

Guaranteed that's not a flatwater paddler.
Dumbass.

neither was that.

Why should a simple technical qustion be answered with profanities, beats me.

I discovered OC1 only recently, but I do believe it is the best measure to evaluate. Fully agree with " not from Maks", so I will not repeat. Sitting position, paddling on the same side, similar hull speed. Totally relevant.
Of course a good paddler has to be fit. But what kind of fitness ? I have not done a single bench press in my life ( does not relate to paddling movement at all)and I do not run, I just dislike both a lot. But I can XC ski 5 km in around 14:30 on a good day,or keep road bike 40 km plus for 15 or so minutes - nothing great, but OK and lots of fun.

Cross country skiing is in my opinion the best preparation for any kind of paddling and the results in this sport should be used as a fitness test, together with other methods. ANYTHING to keep people active over winter and is specific enough - weight training included, but not monopolised. Rowing machine or paddling machine test should also be a good indicator.But the final test should be on water and is the most important one.

Surprises in OC1 test? HUGE. Here are top 5 times from the Guelph Lake time trials. I will comment on surprizes. About 30 people in each class. 400m. Mostly calm.

Women : Dawn Williams 1:49, Adrienne Mason 1:50,
Ann Tran 1:54, Marilyne Suke 1:57, Sandy Field, Leane Stanley, Adele Armstrong 2:01.

Dawn is a world class paddler, several times world champ, including Molokai, 28 times marathon National Champion kayak, canoe, white water. Does not weight train at all. Adrienne has never won anything in paddling,mid field at the best, is overall fit and versatile,does not train that much, BUT has excellent technique. Marilyne Suke is 49, only second year in paddling, but trains some 18h per week, mediocre xc skier and triathlete. Leane Stanley has won several marathon national championships.
Nobody, even me, would take Marilyne to Huron team without this test. Similar with Adrienne. Got it??

Men: Brian Suke and Maks Zupan 1:37, Mike Devine 1:41,
Kevin Kwok 1;42, Andrew Mason, Don Stoneman 1:44.

Brian Suke is a novice paddler, has not raced a single race in paddling in his life. But the most talented power house I have ever coached. First year in paddling. Top XC skier, 17th overall on Keskinada 50 km. Yours truly is over 60 and nobody would consider him for a top team without time trial. Mike Devine has won at lest 4 dragon boat worlds, premier included, and many small boat nationals.
Kevin is a top paddler as well. But Andrew finished among last on any marathon race I have seen him in. Does better in XC skiing. BUT - he is a good sprinter, good technique as well. Again,in no way I would consider him for an elite team without a time trial. Don Stoneman, far from young, left several higher ranked marathoners behind him... And many other muscular, fit people were left behind, both women and men, for simple reason: they do not feel water, they do not catch water, they do not move the boat properly. Of course they will now learn and improve.

So, top dragon boaters can be found in unexpected places,unexpected ages, by a simple on water test. No paddling discipline owns DB. Good for this "young" sport!

good points, but funny how people diss BP.

The most underated part of the stroke for most Dbers is use of the top arm, which is your stability. Most people rotate and reach well, but few effectively use their top arm. This is the advantage flatwater and other small boat displines have - good top arm support is necessary for proper body support and weight transfer which ultimately leads to proper connection.

That being said, BP and shoulder strength are core for top arm support. And if you plan on sprinting or doing a powerful explosive movement such as a proper DB stroke, then you need this strength.

First, about BP and upper arm strength: agree with you.
In marathon, that upper arm push down and back literally separates men from boys. Some top paddles feel that they are getting equal power from the top arm, which I disagree, but still,it is a very important part of the technique.
I do prefer pushups, done in an aggressive way, to BP - more dynamic, more whole body.
Single poling ( without using legs) and double poling in XC skiing or roller skiing are also excellent methods for this kind of strength.

In terms of fitness test: we could be more flexible and versatile. Examples:for Dawn, her dryland fitness test could be her second place( all age groups combined)at Keskinada World Loppet. For Adrienne, her 3rd place at the world junior quadrathlon championships in the Czech Republic. ( swim, kayak, bike, run,). For competitive swimmers, their swimming results - very relevant, very similar to paddling,etc. Or:plain swimming test, rowing machine test, paddling machine test. Many talented people do NOT fit into the same straight jacket. But the test on water is THE test, finally.

Most people master OC1 in about 15 minutes. Brian and his mother Marilyn were only their second time in an OC1 on the trials.

The good news about DB sport is, that by being so popular, can also bring new talent into other disciplines.
Until this spring, Brian was a typical " practice 3times before the race" festival dragon boater, 3 years in a row. Also, a recreational playboat kayaker.
Than , he asked me this spring to try a K1. Here he goes, with an old X Lancer, and Barton wing paddle. Does not even tip. Picks up modern kayak style in 30 minutes. I remember my capsising in the same boat many years ago, probably some 20 times - not too good for my natural talent... Yesterday, he went with me 3h down the river, even few class 2 rapids, in K1.

There are more talented people like Brian in local races, with some luck we might discover them.

Thanks for posting the results and the explanations Maks.

It's always interesting to hear diff't perspectives. I can't recall but we're these time trials to form a possible National Team or to race off? Is the GWN women or another team...


If I ever get my hands on an OC-1 I would love to test myself.

Thanks

Maks, those times you mentioned, what was the distance?

What type of water were they paddling in? Deep, flat, or moving?

Maks, those times you mentioned, what was the distance?

What type of water were they paddling in? Deep, flat, or moving?

he already said that it was 400m, in a deep lake, mostly calm..

Question is Maks, what if you did strength now, would it not be a benefit?
Your experience, technical ability and being stronger should make it for faster boat.

The course was 400m, db paddle on one side, calm to modest head wind, deep water, for the initial assessment of some Huron and other paddlers for GWN Syndicate teams. More trials to follow.

Strenghth training IS necessary, but can be accomplished in different ways: hard work steep uphills in XC skiing,sometimes upper body only,
body resistance calisthenics ( cross country skiers do lots of this as circuit training), weight training, all out swimming sprints, sprints in slow ( or slowed down) boat. Any other ideas?

Dawn does lots of circuit/ calisthenics for her skiing, but no weights, yet her start is among the best on the marathon circuit. Huron starts are very good as well. We are all XC skiers,only one or two exceptions.

Adding to Maks list

Sorry,but what is XC skiing?

XC = Cross Country

I'm not sure if anyone has added this but... swimming is an excellent way of cross training for it not only works your aerobic system but very similar muscle groups used in paddling.