Does anyone know if there is a listing of the teams competing at this event.
Who's going?

Thanx!

Mayfair has shown they are a different level team than everyone else this year and will win this qualifier easily.

Nothing will be easy....

I think Mayfair needs a dose of reality again > insert FCRCC

Welland will show how good Mayfair is. In Pickering they had lane 6, CSDBC had lane 4 and probably not the full roster they had in Ottawa.

In Toronto, the field was weak and Scotia Beach was watered down from previous years, partly because Mayfair took a couple of their better paddlers.

In Pickering, Toronto and Sudbury, who knows if the course is really 500m so it's tough to compare times. And Chiro's are no where near Mayfair level. (Don't slag me here - they just aren't surveyed courses and it can make 1 sec difference either way).

But Welland will be deep fast water, surveyed course, everyone on their A game and fair lanes. If Mayfair rocks, again, hats off!

I think they will kill everyone and eliminate any doubt.

Welland would be a great course for the CCCWC race off, but it won't be there. The race off was moved to the new course at Marilyn Bell many months ago.

It should be close between G&G and Mayfair.

You wish, but Mayfair is dominant now and has moved away from G&G.

There's that old Mayfair attitude.

You must be one of the guys that doesn't paddle with them anymore.

I'm a Mayfair supporter and proud of it. Mayfair can act like they are the best because they are the best!

In other words, you're a bandwagon jumper. Congratulations.

clap

Mayfair's good, but for the amount of work that they put in as a crew and talent in the boat they should be way faster.

My money is on G&G. For some reason I feel they are going to pull this one off. My perdiction, G&G leads the whole race and just holds off Mayfair.

I suspect that the people making the arrogant posts about Mayfair dominating aren't either current or prior Mayfair paddlers. The race off should be very competitive and no crew is going to walk away with anything.

To the person who expressed disappointment about Mayfair not being faster, given the training we do, we're sorry! It is probably a function of our age... someday you'll find that you have to train that much harder just to maintain the same speed (or delay the inevitable decline) as you age.

Good luck to everyone in Sudbury and at the CCCWC race off.

Nice try Mayfair paddler to take the pressure off but you guys gotta walk the talk now.

"Mayfair's good, but for the amount of work that they put in as a crew and talent in the boat they should be way faster."

Dumbest thing I've read so far today, but the day is young.

How much faster do you expect them to BE? Faster than CSDBC and G&G is pretty damn fast. Faster than FCRCC? Who knows. They certainly look faster than last year, so it's possible.

But you're disappointed they're not faster. That's just plain dumb.

you are gonna have to walk the talk. Let's see how Welland goes.

And I'm assuming you are just totally writing off Chiros in Sudbury...

You are just a dumb sh_t! How many times do you need to be told that the race off has been moved from Welland to the western beaches water course?

Also knowing paddlers on all 4 teams: Mayfair, G&G, Chiros and CSNP none of these crews will take the other lightly nor will any of them boast how good/fast/slow/better they are. I yes I do realize that they are in 2 distinct age divisions.

People who think Mayfair will have it easy are poorly mistaken. I tip my hat to Mayfair for easily being one of the top teams on the water. They train hard as a team and it pays off.

Do not under-estimate G&G. They only had 2 practices in a dragon boat before Pickering and were not far behind Mayfair. I saw them practicing at Sunnyside last week; if they're training as a team they will be hard to beat.

I think both teams are going to have their hands full if they want to win this race-off. Should be fun to watch.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL CREWS RACING!

Don't discount Pickering, as I remember they were the only one of the three to actually get a medal at last years CCWC's!!!!

And they have a way of getting under Mayfairs skin, didn't they beat Mayfair in Sudbury 2 years a go?

Only Ontario team to medal last year was Mayfair - Silver in the 200M

Perhaps PDBC got a Bronze?

PDBC grabbed a bronze in the 200m last summer at CCWC:

38 #038 Premier Mixed 200m
1 4 FCRCC CAN 45.787
2 2 OHDBC Mayfair Predators CAN 46.699
3 5 PDBC Elite CAN 46.987
4 3 Sony G&G Dragons CAN 47.064
5 1 Kurpfalz GER 47.168

"My money is on G&G. For some reason I feel they are going to pull this one off. My perdiction, G&G leads the whole race and just holds off Mayfair."

You probably haven't watched these two crews race. Mayfair is faster off the line and more explosive. G&G is really good at smooth conistant power throughout the race.

Gotta say one thing, from the 200M finish last year at CCWC, Canadian crews know how to do is get the hell out of the gate.

Piranhas are racing here and in Calgary?

they'll lose at both.

Well at least they're trying and you'll never know until it is done. One thing we do know is that "Ches" is an *******.

The race schedule is up

Premiere mixed

200m
RACE 1
8:00 AM
Lane
1
2 RBC Royal Dragons
3 G&G Dragons
4 SCC Team Chiropractic
5 Piranhas Dragon Boat Club

RACE 2
8:12 AM
1
2 20 Paddlers
3 OHDBC Mayfair Predators
4 PDBC
5 OHDBC Hammerheads

Who's the "20 Paddlers" team? Never heard of them. Is it a concoction of a number of teams/paddlers banding together?

The "20 paddlers" consist of all of the "Anonymous" posters of this forum. (We have lots of spares)

I am part of the team.

If you do not like the Anonymous poster on this forum, please tell us on Saturday!

Cheers

Isn't 20 paddlers the crew that was given a super cheap entry to just come out and race so there would have to be two heats for premier?

Amazed they'd show up without a drummer and cox!!!

Mayfair has stepped it up this year. I've seen them race several times in 2007 and their start is truly awesome. I would be suprised to see them lose at the CCWC in Toronto. Eat Trout looks really strong in the Grandmasters division Open,Mixed and Womens.

good luck to all teams racing on saturday. Who ever gets it, please represent with class.

http://www.gwndragonboat.com/pub/docs/GWN%20Sport%20Regatta%20Schedule_As%20of%20July%2017%20Revised.pdf

Predictions:
Premier Mixed
1. Mayfair
2. G&G
3. Piranhas
4. SCC
5. Hammerheads
6. PDBC
7. RBC
Not sure who 20 Paddlers are so I can’t place them

Mixed
1. Mayfair
2. G&G
3. SCC
4. PDBC
5. Piranhas
6. Hammerheads
7. RBC


Open
1. G&G
2. CSDC
3. PDBC
4. Rip the Fondue
5. Piranhas


Women
1. OHDBC
2. PDBC
3. Stratford
4. Cascades
5. UCC

Mixed
1. G&G (yeah, I said it)
2. Mayfair
3. SCC
4. PDBC
5. Piranhas
6. Hammerheads
7. RBC


Open
1. G&G
2. CSDC
3. PDBC
4. Piranhas
5. Rip the Fondue


Women
1. Cascades
2. OHDBC
3. PDBC
4. Stratford
5. UCC

In light of the questions that have been raised on several threads as to who is this team called "20 Paddlers" and how did they qualify for the Club Crew race-offs, DBC should shed some light.

If they are a legitimate team/club then DBC should say so and indicate what process that was used to qualify their roster for the race-offs.

If they did not follow the same qualifying rules as all the other teams then shame on DBC for allowing this to happen. This is the sort of thing that brings discredit to DBC and makes a mockery of the whole Club Crew event.

Let's hear from you DBC!!!

How about: Let's hear from you 20Paddlers!!!

G&G have many of the previous premier national team paddlers (male and female) on board and are very much MCC oriented. They have also been practicing since Pickering. A bit of a stretch to call them a underdog....

It seems you are concerned with the protocol and process, but have you stopped to think that your public hand-wringing may be a little...misplaced?

Perhaps the team is just filler? Someone else suggested they were given the chance to participate in order to fill a second heat. That sounds reasonable to me.

Are you concerned that they're going to win? Is there something that YOU will lose as a result of their participation?


To summerize the above: take a chill pill, dude.

Any team can do this regatta. But only qualified teams are eligible to win the CCWC entry. They may just be doing this a) for fun or b) as a roster qualifier for Calgary.

I think any team can do it, provided they are a DBC crew....otherwise they'd have to wear PFDs, since only DBC-registered crews can go without PFDs.

I wonder what measures will be take if one of the non-sanctioned crews interferes with a sanctioned crew (e.g. collision, wash riding)?

The non-sanctioned crews will be too slow to interfere with the leading sanctioned crews.

Look what happened at the MCC regatta.

What happened?

Wash-riding.

There were no ghost lanes at Missy.

Anyone heard any results yet??

yep - mayfair won. Edged out G&G. Congratulations and good luck in Penang.

Here all these clubs from TO area getting excited and racing off to go to Malaysia .Sounds to me like this will again be another National Team let down.The team that qualified probably won't go once they realize the cost which will be $4000+ per crew member .The flights to Penang alone are over $2000 from TO and for the western teams its around $1600 .The westies will go since they always seem to fund their own ways but the eastern teams when it comes to having to pay their own way usually bow out ......why enter when you know you probably won't go ?

you are a dumb a$$

the problem with having an argument with someone over the forum on a weekend is the lag time between responses. you only check email every so often, check your favourite websites <cough>porn!<cough> and log onto the forum to see who's slagging who.

so currently we have:

6:35pm Anon1
"opinionated nonsense"

8:01pm Anon2
"senseless namecalling rebuttle"

11:43pm Anon1 (watching Star Trek 2)
"so's your mother"

2:37am Anon2 (back from bar)
"yeah, so I jush got off yer mother, heh heh ehhh"

and so on....

There were only three teams that competed out there today. Mayfair and the G&G's were strong and Chiro held their own. They were in everyones face all afternoon. Congrats to our local Mayfair for winning both the 200m and the 500m. With a stacked team like that... it should have been a cake walk however I dont think they were expecting the two others to explode like that in the finals... Good job all teams for a good afternoon of racing.

It will be interesting to see if Mayfair actaully goes to Penang.
The majority of the crew will be in Australia this fall.
Having spent upwards of $4,000, will they be willing to commit
another $4,000 next year.
My bets on Chiro's going as G&G will turn it down.
Jim just did this for kicks and to keep his Senior crew
ready to kick some ass against the Chinese.

I love sh!t like this:

"With a stacked team like that... it should have been a cake walk however I dont think they were expecting the two others to explode like that in the finals..."

Are you trying to make victory seem like defeat, or defeat seem like victory?

Personally I find the "they won, but they should have won by more" tone to be pretty weak.

They won, and in the end that is all that counts.

Both G&G and Mayfair-less Predators were stacked.
But, training counts. Simple.
No-one remembers who came second after a few years,
it only matters who crossed the line first.

mayfair is a true "club crew" they have the same team out every mondays and wednesdays at outer harbour rain or shine practicing as a team. Today they got what the truly deserved. They worked hard for it and proved that they are damn near close, if not, the best club crew in at least this side of canada.(probably the world for that matter but they will decide that next year in penang. I can say for sure as I am close freinds with one of the paddlers, and with jim, that they are going to be in attendance in penang. Why else would they work so hard)

Today was a good day to be a dboater!!!

who won in the senior and junior divisions?

i sense some sour grapes out here.

Anyways congratulations to all paddlers.

Mayfair, a well deserved win, G&G and Chiro, a few inches away. Any of those three crews would have represented our country well in Penang.

complete results anyone?

Congrats to all the teams who raced yesterday. It was a spectacular day. I want to take 10 seconds to thank GWN for a very well run event.

Where are the results???

Seniors?

Jumiors???

Mayfair-less, G&G, Scotia...etc.
Are not "club crews" - they are teams.
If they were "true" club crews then they would be able to pick
from several teams at THEIR club. No of us do. We form a team of
approx 24 paddlers and call it a Club Crew because we train twice a week.

Canoe Clubs at the paddling level form the only true club crew system.
We can almost breath a sigh that they do not enter DB.

Mayfair are truly untouchable. No question.
But, as previous paddlers have pointed out it is not luck
but hard training that go them there. They also have the benefit
of having a crew made up of 8 women that are present or former
national team members and the majority of men that are quality
additions - a monkey could have steered them down the course
yesterday..

Typical of a canoe athlete to compare dragon boat to their sport jus because it uses a paddle. Dragon Boat is not structured like canoe club for many good reasons. Might as well compare canoe to syncronized swimming where there are individuals and teams that compete. Dragon boat is a team sport.

So who won the Premier Open Division?

G&G dropped out after their first 200m qualifier. So the Seniors then won the remaining races. But after the last race, Rip the Fondue was the team that was cheering the most?

I'm guessing the Seniors weren't really in the Premier Open division, and they just threw them into that race so that they didn't have to paddle down the course by themselves?

So refer to it as the Team Championships, with coaches
selectively recruiting.

Farintosh seems to have gone against all the hype he
has placed on building home grown atheltes and simply
dropped in the paddlers he needed.

Great way to build the sport.

"But after the last race, Rip the Fondue was the team that was cheering the most? "

Whatever. If you were there to see that then you know you won. Why don't you just post it that way instead of feigning ignorance?

Fairport won a junior spot (not sure which one). CSDC I believe swept all they entered and OHDBC women took the women's spot

a monkey could have steered them down the course
yesterday

Hasn't Mayfair had a stupid looking money has a coach and steersman for years now?

I would really like to know how many teams actually had homegrown club talent represent them yesterday. There were many teams in which I noticed other paddlers in. Nice way to kill the club system by stacking National "premier" paddlers on them. What is this so called sport coming to. Isn't that the reason why the Worlds and Club crews are every other year?

Having spoke to a few of the Mayfair paddlers myself, I can tell you that it is HIGHLY unlikely any of them will be going to Penang next year. I've even heard Jimmy skirt around the issue and won't even describe it as a "twinkle in his eye"

to make sense of this.

Yes, the Senior's team crossed the line first in all 4 races (200m and 500m) in the Open division. And yes, they were registered as a "senior" team not an open team, so it's my understanding that Fondue earned the Open spot for Malaysia. Having said that I have to tip my hat to the senior men, their coach and steerer. Impressive win, and a class act all the way. Well done indeed.

As for the posts on "stacking", having an elite representation is as important as a broad grass roots/recreational/feeder system to the continued success of any sport. Soccer being the quintessential example.

About the club comment, yes it would be great to have a club consisting of numerous teams, with a clubhouse, and all the amenities. And then to be a coach in that organization that could pick and choose the cream of the crop for a "club" team. Having said that, I doubt that many (if any) other paddlers out of the OHDBC could crack the Mayfair team, so perhaps by default Mayfair is truly a Club Crew.

Times

Mayfair and G&G in the 1:55 range, Chiro around 1:56, Pickering at 2:01

Slight side wind

Anyone in that 1:55 and 1:56 range would medal at the worlds

crack the Mayfair crew ?
That I doubt in a big way...the only other crew would be the Hammerheads.

Club Crew involement is not about producing a race-off crew for one
year - and even the club crew event. It is about forming a crew that
remains intact for several years rather than looking at whole scale changes.

Mayfair for all their ability which is un-questioned, how many of their
paddlers were on board the crew last year ?
As far as the women - it look like as many as six were changed.
The men added 4.
How many other crews could withstand a turnover of ten crew members
and still compete let alone win every race they enter.

official times?

The definition of club crew continues to be the most boring debate out there. If a crew meets the roster requirements laid down by DBC they are a club crew. Case closed. It gets tiring hearing indignant anonymous posters on this forum complain that their own interpretation of what constitutes a club crew is not used.

From the perspective of a casual observer it seems to me that there has been a lot of grass roots development in a crew like, for example, Mayfair. Who cares if they drop in a few older, 40+, sprint canoe athletes and incorporate them into the crew over a couple of years. Good for them. That is smart not only from the perspective of immediately improving your crew but also for helping your "grass roots" athletes in the boat develop.

People on this forum should stop complaining about the composition of other crews and get busy building/training their crews intelligently and comprehensively instead if they want to compete at this level.

Grass roots development in Mayfair...that was five years ago.
Now we have hired guns.

The answer is that Mayfair lost a lot of the grass roots members
over the past two/three years.
Jim, has slowly and selectively added Senior Crew members to "bolster"
the crew rather than add members from the Warriors crew.
This year it was wholesale changes to the womens dept.
Are they still a "Mayfair" crew...only by name - the same
as MCC or the IMPS, or any othr crew.
If a coach can add selectively - good luck to them.
But, it does nothing to develop the sport other than say
this is how you win events.

The Chiro team - now that is a Club Crew.

I appreciate your opinion, but I think it's wrong to assume too many things without questioning them.

You find the club crew debate boring, but it's at the very heart of things over the last 6 years in dragon boat racing.

What is a "club crew"?

On one extreme you can define it as any 20 guys or girls that jump into a boat on any given weekend. No restrictions, no requirements, no qualifications. Just jump in and paddle, anything goes.

On the other side you have a hard line definition that would require a stable crew over a number of years with little, if any, changeover. A consistent identity, a consistent roster, a provable long term history of racing.

Somewhere in the middle there are allowances for changeover, some validation of status through history or participation, etc. But where do we draw the line?

"If a crew meets the roster requirements laid down by DBC they are a club crew."

Okay, DBC decides the rules, but these rules are not set in stone. They could go the loosy-goosy anything goes route, or they could go the hard-line route.

We can influence DBC about how they set up these rules. If we care enough to do something about it.

Some of us might, others don't really care all that much. Some of us might decide to care a little too late to do anything about it. I think that includes a lot of us.

One thing that seems clear to me, JUST MY OPINION, is that the whole definition of club crews as it stands is a poor fit for the current dragon boat paddling community. So we try to overlay a definition that doesn't quite fit, and this forces teams to play a bizarre game. We create "clubs" in order to meet requirements, whether or not the clubs make any sense in the real world, or compared to the regular season of competition. Some of these "clubs" wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the need to meet club crew definitions.

There is a LOT more that could be said in this debate, but maybe some of you like Geoff find it "boring", so I'll leave off for now.

All teams lose members over time. At the end of the club crew championships last year, and after a win at the GWN festival, some long time Mayfair members opted to retir