It's time for some fun in the US. Let's see some predictions.

Philly is always the favorite, but after watching DCH beat Philly in the 250 today, I think anything can happen. The Flushing swamp is DCH's home field, and since the paddlers at Flushing must use the crappy wooden paddles as provided by the race organizers (not to mention those heavy wooden boats), DCH can practice using that very equipment while outside teams must adapt onsite. In the past, Philly was almost always able to overcome this disadvantage. But with this year's DCH crew looking strong, DCH may be able to steal at least a few races.

MAD didn't look too strong in Montreal, but they always seem to put up a good fight in Flushing.

Other teams? Not sure who else is coming. The website doesn't list the teams. According to the website, the prize money this year is quite low. An Open team can win $4000 max, but there is a $1200 entry fee. So at most, a men's team can win $2800. (Mixed and women's teams can net no more than $2150 each.) Unless the race organizers have forgotten to update the website with increased prize amounts, there's not much of a monetary incentive for an outside team.

Most of the good NY teams often skip practices at Flushing because the poor quality of boats and water conditions. DCH hasn't practice on that site or used the equipment except on race day for the last 2-3 years from what I can tell.

Practice boats are old teak boats that are barely staying afloat, while the Open races use SRS boats.
So no one will have an advantage by practicing at Flushing lake.

Philly will win big in NY, question is how much money can draw from this event. With the high entrance fees it's almost not worth it IMHO.

A Montreal Mix crew will attend.

"Practice boats are old teak boats that are barely staying afloat, while the Open races use SRS boats.
So no one will have an advantage by practicing at Flushing lake. "

It's great that the Open races are in upgraded boats. They raced in those old teak boats for years. But are crews allowed to use their own paddles? Normally at Flushing, all paddlers have to use the wodden paddles that are provided. If a team normally practices with (and races with) carbon fiber, using wood can be an adjustment.

Anyone who tries to predict anything about Flushing has never raced there, all those who have been there know that anything can happen when you race in 3-4 feet of water with hidden sandbars.

I did the Flushing race once.

Never again.

We went through the trouble, and expense of organizing transport, and accommodations, etc, etc... Got down there, made a good accounting of ourselves (Mixed crew 2nd in 500m; Womens 1st in 500m), but did we even get a flippin' medal? The silver!? A gold for the women!?

Nahhhhhh.

But EVERYBODY got a crap-ass participation medal!! EVERYBODY!

Political correctness to the nth degree!! SCREW YOU! Thanks for NOTHING. Literally.

Call it what it is: The Sesame Street Dragon Boat Race Festival, where everybody's a winner, right Elmo?

"YAAYYYYYYYYYYY"

NEVER AGAIN!!!

those medals make good paper weights and I tend to swap the neck bands when the medals from my other regattas start fading in color.

I've even used a few of them for archery practice. Makes a great sound when you hit them dead on.

Give medals for winning, give paper diplomas for participation and only on requested basis...save some money and use it towards getting really good trophies and not the cheap plastic ones..

Learn from Montreal and Toronto...

Everyone loses in flushing races. You waste too much water and is bad for the environment. Please do not do flushing races. Flush once only!

Wait a minute...

I always thought that flushing an empty toilet actually contributes to cleaning the environment.

Think about it: your toilet is filled with nice clean water thanks to your municipal water supply. This water either comes from filtration plants draining water from your filthy local waterways or from remote reservoirs where the water is fresh and clean.

After flushing an empty toilet, the water is then transported to the sewage system where it eventually ends up back in the filthy waterways around your municipality. But since you are flushing clean water, you are actually contributing to the cleanliness of your local waterways.

So flush twice for a greener tomorrow!

Buddy... Ever seen the water at Flushing Meadows?

For those who never have, think on this:

On a counter top, I would present to you two clean glasses filled with liquid.

One I would fill with the contents of a can of Mountain Dew.

The other I would fill with the water from Flushing.

I would defy you to tell me which was which.

They have the tightest security and dumbest rules of any DB race. Even the World's IDBF rules seem like a relax day at the beach compare to Flushing rules.

Glove wearers beware, a few years ago they outlawed any gloves that wasn't the color black. They thought it could be used as a distraction to the other teams. The people who wore the dishwashing gloves protested greatly!

Is black a colour?

can be more than 1/8" thick

I'm sure I wrote this awhile ago, but the one year I raced there, I was threatened to be DQ'd for wearing a band-aid to cover a cut on my hand. I thought they were kidding....then I had to take off my band-aid.

http://www.hkdbf-ny.org/home.php?choice=schedule

What's the alternative? Not much in NYC. Princeton is an hour away and has the potential to become the region's top race. Philly? Two hours but sells out early with local teams.

Can someone explain?

grape vine tells me DCH will pull a last minute entry with an elite Asian crew brought in by their sponsor.

It should be an exciting race to witness. Having seen Philly race against an elite Chinese crew in almost 7 years.

Elite Asian crew from where? You guys must sit around all day thinking of these fantasy scenarios...

From Asia.

Yep heard it too. That Chinese team is doing a stop over in NY and then is heading towards another city for a demonstration for a Chinese Business Association.

Wait, didn't MAD stack the Open with these guys already?!

I would hardly call it stacking when Sunny Fung is involved.

They've also invited the 90 yr old Shaolin grandmasters to hop onto their boat after their performance at the festival to propel them across the finish line using their Qi power.

Sounds like someone has a lot of hatred going on for certain NY teams...

Who is Sunny Fung?

U don't KNOW the GREAT Sunny!!!

all the Intermediate and rec crews are winning and winning big!!
Severe Lane Bias and SRS boats not consistent in speed.
///
Philly loses to DC Dragons in 500m championships. Who the heck is DC dragons???!! They came in 3rd in D division in the finger lakes festival!

DC dragons lost to Philly's youth team in June, ANYTHING can happen in Flushing!!!! DCH, a very good team, was way back in 500 and that too cannot be explained by other than its just Flushing! Lanes are crazy, hidden sandbars, some boats have scum all over them, some are clean.

Lets just say jump start and got to cross lanes without DQ.

DCH had the best lane in the house for that final for those that dont know flushing waters-it gets deeper as you go out.

You must have drank the flushing water dude and a DCH hater. THe water does not get deeper as you go out, it's a flat lake with some sand bars here and there. Lane 6 is very shallow this year. Looks like th course was rotated counterclockwise this year and bringing some bizzare results.

Stay tune for Sunday, it should be fun with most of the premier races unfolding.

What are you talking about? Did you realize Lane 2 was winning all day? You're an idiot 10:53.

There's a winning combination. All the SRS boats are different. Some with sum on the bottom, some without. Different version of the SRS cause they all looked different. And if you got Lane 2, and you were a decent team, you walked on everyone.

Teams that practice once a week was smoking teams that practiced 3-4 times a week by 1-2 boat lengths.

Starting line judge, Pat Meyers started people however she wanted, she gave half boat to full boat head starts.

This has been the most bizzare New York race in history. Not worth attending. Even the NYC crews are calling for a boycott.

This race is a waste for everyone -- but especially for Philly since they are not a local NYC team. The top prize money today is $4000 for the men's division. But the entry fee is $1250, and from the sound of some prior posts it seems that the Philly team has been in NYC since Saturday for some reason. So they are already eating up much of their meager potential net winnings just in hotel costs.

Lokking forward to the always-entertaining Sunday Flushing report!

They used SRS boats for all the money races. The big problem was that they had one boat that was totally clean on the bottom, 3-4 others with a good layer of scum (the ones with the black trim) but the rest of the SRS boats (about 8 boats with brown trim) were simply anchored with over an inch of scum on the bottom of the hull. It is hard to believe they could not have pulled the boats out and cleaned them off ahead of time after taking those high entry fees.

The one clean boat was a guaranteed winner if you were even a half decent team. That is how the DC dragons won yesterday and the Fujianese won the 250 today. Philly got in that boat in the 500 men's final and smoked the field by something like 20 seconds. That was just a few hours after they finished second to the Fujianese who had that boat in the 250. There is no way Philly is 20 seconds faster than MAD over 500 meters, Montreal showed that, it was the boats. There is no way the Fujianese ever beat MAD and Philly in the same boats, they weren't even hitting on time. Same thing for yesterday with the DC dragons beating MAD, DCH and Philly and losing big time to those teams today.

Philly won the 1000 pretty handily when all of the men's teams were in the heavily scum laden boats. They were a good bit ahead of MAD who in turn was a good bit ahead of the Fujianese. Philly also won the overall mixed after taking the 250 with DC dropping back out of the pack.

Lanes may have been a factor too but the boat issue was the overwhelming factor. Paddlers were pulling fistfuls of scum off the boats. Hard to believe how disgusting the boats were. Any result that seemed out of whack can likely be traced to who was in what boat.

"But the entry fee is $1250, and from the sound of some prior posts it seems that the Philly team has been in NYC since Saturday for some reason. So they are already eating up much of their meager potential net winnings just in hotel costs."

Why do you give a crap what they do with the finances of the race? Maybe they just wanted to go up and get some more race day atmosphere before Sydney. Where the heck else can they go to race? Certainly a 2 hour drive to NY is cheaper than a Canada trip. As it is they pulled down a few K for their efforts and if it helps them fund Sydney more power to them.

"Why do you give a crap what they do with the finances of the race? Maybe they just wanted to go up and get some more race day atmosphere before Sydney. Where the heck else can they go to race? Certainly a 2 hour drive to NY is cheaper than a Canada trip. As it is they pulled down a few K for their efforts and if it helps them fund Sydney more power to them. "

I'm also wondering why Philly bothered to go to Flushing this year, considering the minimal prize money offered. The only reason Philly typically goes to Flushing is to try to win money. (Nothing wrong with that, btw.) Considering how random the boats were this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Philly pass on Flushing next year unless the prize money is raised significantly. They can always go to Montreal for the "race day atmosphere" (which few of the Philly team members who are going to Sydney really need anyway -- their studs have raced all over the world). Montreal is not perfect, but the conditions there more closely resemble a real race than the joke that Flushing has always been.

"There is no way the Fujianese ever beat MAD and Philly in the same boats, they weren't even hitting on time."

But they did, it was odd seeing them about 1/2 boat behind Philly and walking on them with every stroke to win by an 1/2 boat over Philly and 1-2 boat lengths of MAD. It's starting to make sense why DCH didn't enter an Open crew this year.

"I'm also wondering why Philly bothered to go to Flushing this year, considering the minimal prize money offered."

Some of the Philly guys were handing out flyers for their race next year maybe it was a recruitment trip? What better place to do it than Flushing where teams will be looking for someplace better to race after all the crap they went through. Was it part of the CCWC qualifying, maybe that is another reason?

The Saturday starter judge, Pat Meyers, needs a mega dose of valium. She was screaming senseless all day. Despite the screaming, she just didn't understand how to line up dragon boats. Mindless commands created more problems with pretty good weather conditions! Sunday was a little better. Are these "USDBF certified" judges only book tested? Jump starts are still rampant. Many local recreational crews are taking after DCH and putting in 3-6 strokes before the gun! Refs see this and do nothing!!!

"There is no way the Fujianese ever beat MAD and Philly in the same boats, they weren't even hitting on time."

"But they did, it was odd seeing them about 1/2 boat behind Philly and walking on them with every stroke to win by an 1/2 boat over Philly and 1-2 boat lengths of MAD. It's starting to make sense why DCH didn't enter an Open crew this year."


Certainly you can write this off to the insanity of Flushing but the reason for the outcome in this race is quite simple from a fluid/wave dynamics viewpoint. MAD is in lane 2, The Fujianese line up close to them in Lane 3. The Fujianese did not have the boat speed of MAD but MAD's advantage was neutralized to a large degree when they Fujianese drew the clean bottomed boat. That allowed them to stay on MAD's wake down the course, factor 1. The shallows of Flushing were factor 2. MAD was leading the Fujianese by about a 1/2 length but when they hit the sandbar at the end of lane 2 with about 70-80 meters to go their boat slowed tremendously, the wake came up and the Fujianese shot down that wave right past MAD and Philly in what looked like an incredible burst of speed. In reality it was nothing more than a nice surfing job. MAD was shaking their heads after this one but there was little they could do about it. That same thing where the leading boat slows in the end of the course shallows and a close waker shoots past has happened many a time in Flushing.

"Re: Flushing races: who wins?? August 6 2007, 9:14 AM


The Saturday starter judge, Pat Meyers, needs a mega dose of valium. She was screaming senseless all day. Despite the screaming, she just didn't understand how to line up dragon boats. Mindless commands created more problems with pretty good weather conditions! Sunday was a little better. Are these "USDBF certified" judges only book tested? Jump starts are still rampant. Many local recreational crews are taking after DCH and putting in 3-6 strokes before the gun! Refs see this and do nothing!!!"

I don't think it's brave of you to be bringing a person's name here and making those types of statments while you are hiding under anon. She's a volunteer judge that gets no compensation from the organizers. Put your name down and your team if you're not a low life coward.

Your other statement about DCH taking a few strokes before the gun exposes you as the dimwit who made thee statment the further lanes are deeper. You're out to bash them regardless of what happens, probably because they beat your crew and this is your only way to get back at them, again as a coward.

Those who raced on Sunday will know most heats only had 3-4 boats racing at one time and a chase officials in the back and a starting judge. It would have been easy to pick up anyone taking 1-2 strokes let alone 6 you are talking about. On most part most teams lined up fairly well witht he exception of the wind pushing some boats past the starting line or to the right or left.

So do your bashing with your paddling and not with a keyboard. Get a real life man!!

At least they used typhooon paddles, even though they were really short and only had one length...45s?

You gotta love the SRS fleet that they own. One boat's row 6 was over 2.5 feet away from row 5.

I noticed that as well but didn't think much of it. What's with these mismatched SRS boats? Are these owned or rented for the race?

They bought these SRS a few years back and the first year they were sight for sore eyes over the aged teak boats, but now they are just a sore sight.

The typhoon 8 paddles werent any help. they kept breaking. Either breaking in half or handles coming off. They're cheap "made from China" paddles. grey owls are still significantly better.

They did have a bunch of HP Grey Owls in the mix, you just had to look for them. We popped a bunch of the handles off the Typhoons.

The race organizers are getting better. Their volunteers are great. But the judging still sucks. I don't care where they get them from, but there is still a significant drop off from the one or two good starters and the ones who just fail to earn the respect of the crews. Judges will never maintain control over the CHEATERS until they issues warnings or DQs.

What the heck were you talking about? SRS boats were great. I wished I could have gotten them in more than just one race!

"Re: Flushing races: who wins??

What the heck were you talking about? SRS boats were great. I wished I could have gotten them in more than just one race!"

They would have been great IF they were relatively equal. Haven't the organizers ever heard of powerwashing??

Having raced in all 3 sets of boats this past weekend, I'll still take the SRS over the old teaks anyday.

The officiating wasn't all bad all the time. A lot of problems occurred with inexperienced steerers and teams failing to obey the start line judge by refusing to stop or move back. A few teams continually to disobey the starting line judge and forced them to move the others up to compensate. Is this cheating? dunno but it's not fair when a crew always starts 2-3 rows ahead of everyone else.

I do find it funny that teams on this forum that are accusing other teams of cheating are constant rules breaker. people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

"I do find it funny that teams on this forum that are accusing other teams of cheating are constant rules breaker."

So who are you trying to accuse of being behind each accusation? I see a lot of bashing of the race and observations of what ppl saw but not really any concentrated team bashing here...

the race is still bad, but it has gotten better, better boats, even though they have a ton of algae on them,

consitent paddles, typhoons, grey owls, not handmade China paddles as years past. Typhoons are light but weak.

If you are lucky enough to race in SRS boats, it means you don;t have to bail like crazy before the start of the race.

judging, damn can we just take some of the prize money and pay for quality officials?

We were watching one heat on the water near the start line in front of us and 2 boats finished in the same lane without interference and the water judge still raised the good race flag. What happened to the rule about finishing in your own lane?

Who the heck are these Fujianese and DC teams? I guess severe boat bias was in effect?

<<Who the heck are these Fujianese and DC teams? I guess severe boat bias was in effect?>>

Fujianese are from Philadelphia. They improved vastly considering that they race the Philly race in June and fished in the 'C' Div.

DC Dragons are from Washington DC canoe club. They raced in Ithaca finishd in the 'D' division.

Not to belittle their achievement from this event. But you can figure it out.