| Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side???September 27 2007 at 10:23 PM | butter |
| - I hope everyone will forgive me if this topic has come up before, but I felt the need to ask.
When practicing in a dragon boat, do you switch sides at all during practice, or paddle the entire practice on one side only?
If you only paddle one side at practice, do you ever switch which side you paddle on for an entire practice?
I've just done one season in Ontario after paddling for years in Victoria, where we would switch on a pretty regular basis during practice. Yet at no practice this year did our team ever switch sides during practice.
Is this an Ontario vs. Victoria thing? Ontario vs. West Coast? East vs. West?
Is this a flatwater thing?
I'm just curious...
If you care to actually respond to my query, please be sure to include WHERE you actually practice so that your comment has some context. |
| | Author | Reply | Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 27 2007, 11:02 PM |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 27 2007, 11:58 PM |
Great topic. I've practiced on both the west and east of the U.S.
There at least two philosophies at play here, and different teams do diverge on this topic.
First, there is the belief that if you can paddle on both sides, then you are of more value to your coach (and team) because when it comes time to fill a boat, it makes it a lot easier to find 10 paddlers who can paddle on each side.
Second, there is the differing belief that says that since you can only paddle on one side of a boat during a race, you should find your best side and use all your finite amount of training time to be the very best you can be on that one side.
I agree with the second philosophy, especially for the top competitive teams. In reality, most top teams will have at least a couple of paddlers who can paddle on each side equally well anyway (because of those individuals' expertise in, say, outrigger), so the coach should never be handcuffed for personnel. Besides, if a team is truly competitve, it will have little problem attracting enough people to try out on each side.
Perhaps a more recreational crew that has trouble attracting more than 20 paddlers on race day should encourage no more than 5 of its paddlers to practice on both sides to assure that the coach can fill the boat with 10 competent paddlers on each side when needed.
But it's complete overkill to require the ENTIRE team to practice on both sides. A personnel-limited team of 20 paddlers on race day will still show up will no less than 5 paddlers who can paddle only on one side. Even in that unlikely scenario, having 5 other paddlers who can paddle on either side assures that a 20-person boat can be filled.
OK, what about unequal body development? That's a very different consideration than race-day strategy. Yes, depending on how you paddle (technique-wise), you can over-develop certain parts of your body. But is that a bad thing? Not sure. Keep in mind that all professional baseball pitchers practice from one side, as do most hitters (there are some switch hitters who can hit both ways -- but there only practice that way because they can do so in a game). And I doubt Tiger Woods hits a thousand shots lefty after hitting a thousand shots righty. |
| kate.
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 12:17 AM |
I disagree with the above person. (I paddle in Tdot btw)
I think that is limiting as an athlete. There are many injuries that plague dboaters, and doing anything that develops only one side of your body will change your personal biomechanics. In your back and shoulders, in particular, there are many layers of different muscles that attach to your vertebrae and any imbalance in the two sides of these muscles will change the way loads are distributed down your spine. Research has shown that muscle imbalance in the spine is related to low back pain (Please see Spine Journal, volume 6 issue 6, 2006 pg. 673).
If you are truly looking to be a great paddler for a long period of time, then you must care for your body. So I feel that everyone should regularly train on both sides.
Furthermore, the argument that there are other sports that are lopsided (ie. baseball) is faulty. You cannot say that just because someone else has done something, that it makes it right. I can say that I've seen a high level dragonboat team paddle with a thrusting cox - but that does not make it the best thing to do. (If you want to discuss that, please find the right forum, I'm not looking to restart that debate).
Yes, I believe that people will have a more dominant side, and it's likely that they will want to select a side to race on (tho some people might still be comfortable racing on both sides...) But it's important to not lose sight of the forest for the trees! |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 1:47 AM |
i'm on the west coast - and most teams over here (southern california, to be specific)switch sides.
it's better for the paddlers development and a lot easier for coaches to seat boats. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 1:51 AM |
Interesting points by the second poster. I suspect that the Olympic shot putters and javelin throwers only practice on the side that they will compete, too. Being able to paddle on both sides does not make one a more "complete athlete" any more than Alex Rodriguez would be a better baseball player if he were able to hit and throw lefty as well. If you can be great doing your sport only righty or lefty, you're STILL great. As for spinal imbalances, much of that should be mitigated by balanced weight training and disciplined flexibilty training. Any great athlete is already doing that anyway.
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| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 2:02 AM |
"You cannot say that just because someone else has done something, that it makes it right."
But if THOUSANDS of world-class athletes are doing something a certain way, it probably is right! With few exceptions, top tennis players play from one side (they use the same hand for the backhand and forehand). Same with American football quarterbacks and kickers. Same with Tour Pro golfers. And the aforementioned shot putters and javelin throwers. And hammer throwers, too.
If a coach insists on making everyone practice on both sides just so he can have an easier time putting together a roster on race day, he is short-sighted at best (and lazy, at worst!) |
| Anonymous
| Good to do both sides | September 28 2007, 2:16 AM |
From the perspective of the individual paddler it's good to be able to paddle on both sides. It can be as if one side is teaching the other.
I am primarily a right side paddler, but years ago I made it a point to volunteer to go left any time that I could, to get the experience on my "off" side. It's served me well, and it has helped the teams I paddle on. When they need a righty, I'm a righty. When we're short a lefty, I can practice or race on the left.
I can buy the idea of specialization. And if all teams were 100% optimized then it would make sense to always paddle on one side only. But in the imperfect world we live in, it makes real world sense to have paddlers that can switch hit.
Does it have to be everybody in the boat? No, of course not. The team doesn't need that. But I would encourage everyone to at least try it. Some might stick with it and become good two-way paddlers, others will want to specialize on one side, but everyone will benefit from the experience and the team will benefit from having a number of switch hitters to call upon when there is a need.
Oh yeah, Toronto paddler, 10+ years.
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| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 2:27 AM |
"i'm on the west coast - and most teams over here (southern california, to be specific)switch sides.
it's better for the paddlers development and a lot easier for coaches to seat boats."
Im on the west coast too. Switching sides is definitely a west caost thing. But in head-to-head races, west coast teams have always lost to the Philly team -- so maybe the Philly way should be examined more closely. From past conversations with the Philly guys, I found that the Philly coach does not expect paddlers to practice on each side. Since a certain number of his team already have outrigger experience, some of his team can paddle on either side, so he's never stuck trying to fill a side of the boat. It looks like his system worked out well at the Worlds, too. But like another poster said, maybe it's a matter of how serious your team is. If you're trying to win a world championship, you probably should spend your limited practice time being your best on the one side you'll be racing (while assuring some balance through weight training and such). A rec team might want to practice on both sides, especially since those paddlers may not spend as much time weight training as a top team would. None of us are pros, so we all have limited time to practice and train while trying to have a full-time job, too! |
| North Man
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 28 2007, 10:23 AM |
Don't over analyse this one. September 27 2007, 11:58 PM has it pretty much bang on. The one weakness as mentioned by the next poster is that paddling on the same side continuously can lead to longer-term injuries (if you don't work hard to regain balance in the off season).
So you have the choice, lower performance in a given season by switching (keeping in mind you need a few people on the team who can switch) and helping to prevent long-term injuries, or optimize each season by paddling on the same size.
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| Backward Rowing
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 29 2007, 5:51 AM |
If a team has limited time, such as practicing only once a week, sure, single sided practices makes sense. To address the injuries, I believe Dragon Boat World discussed cross-training.
But if you are in a crew that does this as their primary source of physical activity, with some beer mug lifting, then switching sides makes a lot of sense.
I personally prefer switching sides on the fly to reduce wasted time. I also, for sprint training, I prefer to paddle on my strong side in the sprint and then paddle on my weak side for the recovery leg to the start line.
Yes, I am from the left-coast. |
| seat3
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 29 2007, 4:16 PM |
I have been paddling for 10 years 4 with the national team. I find paddling both sides during practice to be the the most beneficial even if it feels awkward on the opposite side. There is a benefit beyond the muscle balance issue with which I agree. When you paddle on the opposite side there is a degree of awkwardness. You have to mentally break down the stroke into its various components and this helps to re inforce the elements of the stroke. There is also an image transfer through nerve pathways that improves on the mechanics of the strong side. I have also found this to be true in basketball by shooting in practice with the other hand. While I don't use a jump shot in a game situation it has improved my strong side shot. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | September 29 2007, 11:45 PM |
Do all the c-1 athletes switch sides on off season?
Some sports it maybe worthwhile; but others it doesn't make sense. |
| butter
| thanks... | October 1 2007, 9:24 AM |
Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful input on this topic.
I want to clarify a bit what my experience was with changing sides during practice. By no means did I mean to suggest that we didn't focus on our strong sides while practicing, but we did warm up on both sides and, if doing long pieces would change after the piece and spend a short time on our off sides. The practice was still spent primarily on our strong side, but it did allow us that extra body balance and that awkwardness that seat3 mentioned.
I personally feel it's a better way to practice and I just wanted to find out what the rest of the DB community thought. Appears there is some disagreement on the subject, but both sides do have some valid arguments. Aside from the lone "Westy" comment, this thread has been very nice and helpful. Thanks again. |
| North Man
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 1 2007, 10:33 AM |
Keep in mind that out West the paddling season is a lot longer - and thus the risk of injury relating to overdevelopment greater. In Ontario/Quebec it's a bit harder to overdevelop a side when the paddling season is much shorter, and the time spent restoring balance to your body greater.
I'm not sure I buy into the idea that by training on the other side you can improve the technique on your dominant side. A good mental focus excercise I guess - but surely working on technique on the side you actually intend to paddle is more beneficial. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 1 2007, 1:13 PM |
I'm from Alberta and paddle on both sides, even in our limited paddling season. Our team has always encouraged this, stopping practices at about the halfway point and asking people to swap sides. It makes us more versatile and I do believe that it helps prevent injury.
The only time we don't swap sides is when someone has an injury of some sort (ie shoulder issues for people who used to play a lot of baseball - one of the guys on my team had a hard time popping the paddle high enough out of the water to start the recovery).
The ability to paddle on either side comes in handy, particularly when helping out other teams who are short of paddlers for out of town festivals. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 6 2007, 10:35 PM |
An often neglectited consideration is that switching sides frequently during a practice allows a paddler to mantain a higher average intensity during the practice. During paddling on one side for more than a few dozen strokes muscular fatigue ussully limites intensity. Switching sides rests the off side muscles and utilizes relatively rested muscles. Sort of like doing intervals only instead of resting between intervals you paddle the other side. This is why marathon and outrigger are such effective ways to train and paddle.
Of course in DB the switching is infrequent but the principle that using rested muscles allows higher intensity work holds true as long as you switch a couple of times a practice. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 7 2007, 6:50 AM |
Tell that to Olympic canoers. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 9 2007, 4:10 AM |
"Tell that to Olympic Canoers."
Does anyone know if they train on both sides? Would be good to know. |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 9 2007, 10:20 AM |
They train on one side - the side you race on. They also race sprint, and you aren't allowed to switch - so why would you train that way.
You only train on both if you are allowed to do it -usually for distance races, and in boat where you can do it like outrigger or marathon.
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| Anonymous
| Well it's pretty obvious... | October 9 2007, 11:50 AM |
Olympic canoe paddlers only train on one side. Duh!
Try switching sides while paddling a C1 or other and you will be swimming! |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 9 2007, 1:40 PM |
it seems those that need to switch paddling sides during the season are not your high level type athletes whom often do other forms of training to "balance" their bodies. |
| Anonymous
| the usual b.s. | October 9 2007, 2:10 PM |
"it seems those that need to switch paddling sides during the season are not your high level type athletes whom often do other forms of training to "balance" their bodies."
of course, another thinly veiled insult to anyone who doesn't do everything the way (some) sprint paddlers do. meh.
thanks for coming out. and by the way, how WAS that shoulder surgery...at 25? |
| Anonymous
| Re: Dragon Boat...One Side, Two Side??? | October 9 2007, 2:43 PM |
"thanks for coming out. and by the way, how WAS that shoulder surgery...at 25?"
Couldn't you come up with a better example? Most Dragon Boaters don't start paddling when they are a kid.
There is no way you should develop a chronic injury if you are doing the proper training off the water in anything less than 10 years IMO. If you are having issues after just a few years of paddling you are doing something hella wrong.
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| Anonymous
| weak example? | October 9 2007, 4:05 PM |
sure, I guess you could say that. and you're right, most dragon boat paddlers start much later in life than high performance sprint paddlers. maybe that's an even better reason to make sure we do things that help preserve our bodies against the rigors of training beyond what we might normally be accustomed to.
it's just the cooler-than-you, better-than-you attitudes and the close-mindedness that bugs me about some sprint paddlers. really, are these guys taught to be that way, or is that just the result of years of training under like-minded individuals?
i say switch it up for variety, balance and utility. i can't swear that there's a primary-side performance benefit, but the other points still make it worthwhile all the same. | |
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