Whos going to the 2008 nationals in california in a couple of weeks? Because Philadelphia is showing up strong this year, so whos the other teams going to compete? Philadelphia has got a two strong youth teams aswell, the manayunk youth team is going to be rippin it.

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Please clarify. Your name says "USA NATIONAL TEAM (PHILLY)", doesn't it? So why is there a Nationals if Philly is already the USA National Team?

Your name says "USA NATIONAL TEAM (PHILLY)", doesn't it? So why is there a Nationals if Philly is already the USA National Team?

Likely someone who is not from the Philly team trying to stir up the pot. There will be good but limited competition for the qualifiers in the US. Much like in Canada, number of entries are likely to be low for the races to qualify for Prague, its been that way for years in both countries. There is a coincident "US national championship" that should have more teams.

<<There is a coincident "US national championship" that should have more teams.>>

Where is this coincident event being held?

coincident or coinciding?

Synonyms.

ManaYUNk or Yuck stirring up the pot again and again...

I doubt its manayunk. Why would they claim to be the US National team?

it's probably Manayuk because of what they wrote in the original message:
"Philadelphia has got a two strong youth teams aswell, the manayunk youth team is going to be rippin it."

Anyway it's not going to matter, Bob McNamara's crews will win it all again.

Philly takes a beating on this forum, but until someone comes along and beats them their detractors just sound stupid. Who's going to do it? MAD? DCH (are they still around?) San Diego?

Put up or shut up, guys.

bribing paddlers to paddle for your team is a great team strategy. what is even better is not paying them as you promised.

That's a helluva accusation. You should back it up with details.

bribing them? Is dragonboat that lucrative hahah!!!!

this is another example of the garbage that goes down in Philly being raised up here in the forum.

You hardly ever hear a peep about politics down there. What happened down there? sounds like a bunch of disgruntled paddlers throwing accusations around.

If a team has the cash and can attract paddlers by promising them a free trip to the Worlds, more power to them.

Lets clear up a few things...

#1) Philadelphia and Manayunk are not the same team.

The Philadelphia Dragon Boat Association (aka PDBA, aka "Philly", aka Bob McNamara's team) and the Manayunk dragon boat team share the same length of the Schuylkill river just west of the city of Philadelphia, but that's where the crossovers end. Philly competes in all divisions of the sport except BCS, was the core of Team USA in Sydney last year and won the Nation's Cup. Manayunk (to my knowledge) competes in the Senior Open, Senior Mixed, and Youth divisions, often joins forces with paddlers from Portland and Canada, and competed in Sydney as the USA Senior B team - winning the Bronze medal.

Since they competed as a legitimate part of Team USA in Sydney they have every right to claim to be part of the 2007 Team USA. Occasionally you hear them described as "Team USA" as if the context were "the one and only" but that's just minor semantics.

#2) Why is Philly competing to be the US National Team if they already are the US National Team? ...because that status only lasts until the next US National Championship. We have to defend the titles we won in 2006 in Tampa.


I'll cover the "Bribes" topic later. Lunchtime is over and I have to get back to work.

Jim Morris

Sick 'em, Brian!!! : )

Canada is where the good paddlers are. In Dragon Boat, Canoe, Kayak, in any boat.
America you have 10 times our population but can't touch us in paddling.
Who cares about US Nationals? Lets talk about NTT's at Marilyn Bell where whichever Premier
team that qualifiers will destroy the Yankee team in Praha.

So what happened in Sydney, 2007?

Unfortunately the best Canadian team (we call them Mayfair) did not paddle in Premier.
If a true Canadian national team went they would smash a true American national team.

If you are going to put it that way, let's see how many medals each country will net in the Olympics in Beijing. I think all the top athletes for each country is going No? Let's not use the excuse someone didn't go or were left home.

The contention that Mayfair would have won in Sydney is not supported by the facts. (yeah, yeah Mayfair is better this year but we are talking about 2007). Philly beat Mayfair in the CCWC 500 meter mixed in 2006 with just their local guys and gals finishing second to FCRCC in that race. Mayfair beat Philly in the 200 mixed. When Philly added the outside talent a year later in Sydney they won it all with a much faster boat.

At the men's level there has been much back and forth between Canada and the USA the last several worlds. The USA won the 1000 in Shanghai in 2004, Canada the 200. In Berlin 2005 the USA finished ahead of Canada in 2 of the 3 distances but Russia dominated. We know what happened in Sydney, USA winning the Nations Cup, and we know that FCRCC had a tough time because of the late notice.

The Canadian women are the dominant team of the decade, hands down. It is too back and forth between men's and mixed to declare any one country dominant in those categories. Mayfair will be a worthy adversary for the USA but both of them will likely be chasing Russia, the home team Czechs and Slovakia in 2009. The Eastern Europeans will not be gracious hosts and will be pumped and primed to win it all.

Canada has a much stronger flatwater program than the USA but we are talking dragon boat here where the USA has successfully intergrated both flatwater and outrigger into its top dragon boat teams.

go to hell

I find it humourous to hear Mayfair mentioned as the national premier crew for Canada...I can assure you that a comment like that is not coming from anyone associated with the crew. Mayfair has a GTA based group of paddlers ranging in age from 23 to 59 and may have a chance to race in Prague if they are successful in the trials. Based on 2006, they are definitely the underdog to False Creek at this time. We'll see next week.

Keep in mind that a national team syndicate may have a core of athletes from one crew, but is generally enhanced by participation from other teams as well. That's how it has been done in the past and seems to work reasonably well for a country the size of Canada. In this respect the national crew should not really be called by their "majority" club name, as many others are a big part of their success.

The USA premier open crew raced very well in Sydney and are the world champions. At present they are the best, plain and simple.

Fact - I hate the negativity on this forum and yet one of my guys continues to bring the negative to mey attention.

We, "Manayunk", are the underdogs for the US Nationals. Manayunk has been around now for just over a year! We like it that way. No one from Manayunk started this thread of dialogue. Why would they?

Fact is, Philly is tough, always are and we respect that. They train hard and race hard. The youth comments are out of control. The youth division is a great way to introduce the kids to a great sport. Heckling the youth is just ridiculous.

We have put teams together to go to long beach to have a good time with our buddies. That's it. Why else do this?

First and foremost, we're going to have fun. That said, we're going to Long Beach to have fun RACING.

I would hope that WHOMEVER decided to set this up to appear as if a member of the Manayunk team, or myself, started this, accepts the notion of good hard competition. That's what we plan to be as the underdogs in this event - "competitive" while having a good time.

As a bunch of amateurs, that's all we should all ask for. Who wants an event with NO Competition????????

Now, whomever started this, you should want the competition.

Good luck to Philly and all the other teams going to Nationals in Long Beach. I'm sure you'll do well.

As for being Team USA - I seem to remember wearing a USA jersey while in Sydney! Red, White and Blue. Like it or not, that's reality!

Oh yeah, and the American Flag went up as well when we won a medal.

Now , that said, I believe the leadership within Philly should go out of their way to support a more positive attitude on the forum. It's what I support and it's what I ask of our guys. No reason to be nasty to others putting in the time for this sport. Maybe then, more will take ownership to their words rather than being Anonymous posters.

Later

obviously whoever is posting the negative posts that are illicting some colorful responses know more than the average forum dweller. Therefore these posts seem to originate from the Philadelphia area and not from any of the normal readers here. So whoever threw out the bribe remark you need to tell your people, especially the leadership, to stop that type of talk, otherwise it will just spread and after a while no one from that group will know whether it is fact or fiction. Stop the cancer!

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are people throughout the U.S. who are familiar with the Philly issues.

... and in Canada, unfortunately. We may not really understand the U.S. dragon boat politics, but at least from what gets posted on this forum (and not to suggest that this forum is necessarily a source of truth!!!), it sounds like a mess.

the only problem is a bunch of disgruntled paddlers spreading unnecessary rhetoric. If it was such a big problem why is the PDBA the fastest and largest growing DB organization in any USA city?

The PDBA should be the largest DB organization since it was one of the first ones in the U.S. (it might even have been the first). How does anyone determine which org is the fastest-growing? By percentage or shear numbers?

The fall of many great empires started with dissension in the ranks. Size is irrelevant to current quality. It's only an indication of past glory (or recruitment efforts).

If the PDBA is so big and strong, why do we see them on the west coast recruiting our paddlers?

Seems like we're arguing with middle school level folks here.
National team - recruitment nationally, has nothing to do with how big PDBA is. No one mentioned how strong they were, just they were the fastest growing. If your paddlers are trying out for the team, there isn't as big as a problem as a few people are making it out to believe.

Dissension in the ranks, agreed. If you don't like how the organization is being run, you either stay and comply or leave (or kicked out) and start your own organization.

I'm not from that area but I don't believe there is a problem in Philly just enough individuals who were on the team spreading negativity.

<<National team - recruitment nationally, has nothing to do with how big PDBA is.>>

That's middle-school semantics.

The PDBA has been out here recruiting THIS YEAR for its Philly entry in the upcoming US Nationals. (Not for its national team.)

Can't field their own team - have to go across country to fill the boat? That's not a true Philly Team, feel bad for you guy, good luck with all that. Philly must be concerned about something to go to such measures. Sounds like some of the crap we deal with.

This is interesting. A recent poster on this thread claimed that the PDBA is the fastest growing dragon boat organization in the U.S. But that post has disappeared.

My browser was doing something weird. All posts on this thread appear to still be here. Please continue this entertaining debate.

More MS semantics - MAN WHAT A CRUK

" Unfortunately the best Canadian team (we call them Mayfair) did not paddle in Premier.
If a true Canadian national team went they would smash a true American national team."


A very stupid statement for someone obviously lacking knowledge

If I remember correctly it was the Premier Open US crew that set the new world record in Sydney .I have a tough time believing the crew from TO that was supposed to go would have even come close .At the last NTT's they barely had maybe 6-7 seats on FCRCC in the 500 and were pretty evenly matched in the 1000 . FCRCC was definately alot faster by the time they got to Sydney as Macau & Germany were alot further behind them then they were at the Club Crews .So if we look at it from the point then the last time the NTT's were held the TO crew should of had at least 1-2 boats on FCRCC which they didn't so how do you think they would have been able to set a new world record with that crew ? Humor me please

Read July 9th, 2:14pm again...no need to take the bait...

Fact: The US won the 500 Premier Open final in Sydney. Well done. How would Canada's "best" team have done? No way to know!

Fact: Any claim that the US (or any team, for that matter) holds a "world record" time is just plain ignorant. There are no true "world records" in dragon boating! Wind, water temperature, and boat technology all play a huge factor in dragon boat times. For example, even the International Rowing Federation does not recognize "world records" because of those same factors. In ceratin track and field events, a wind-aided effort cannot be considered for a world record.

Whatever idiot ! If you only put as much effort into your paddling as you do on this site then maybe 1 day you can make a seat on the national team and show all of us how it really is done

SOOOOO....based on your line of thinking.....there also could NEVER be a bobsledding world record, speed skating world record, downhill skiing world record, ski jump world record. swimming world record (outdoor pool), marathon, 5K, 3K, 10K, cross country skiing world record.....the list could go on and on.....

Let's all write letters to the Olympic Committee and recommend that no sports be allowed to have world records....because the previous poster doesn't think its fair.....

Maybe we should just cancel all future sporting events and the Olympics.

Jeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

"Paddles", 12:08 was just reporting the facts... the same is true for flatwater canoeing and kayak. There are no official world records because of the variability of racing conditions. Yes, some sports have official world records and some don't. You may not like that, and you clearly don't understand it, but it doesn't make the person who pointed the fact out to you an idiot!

^^^^^ hands person above a crying towel

"Can't field their own team - have to go across country to fill the boat? That's not a true Philly Team, feel bad for you guy, good luck with all that. Philly must be concerned about something to go to such measures. Sounds like some of the crap we deal with."

Hmm, a couple of California guys race with Philly in Sydney using Philly-raised funds to help get them there, they did pretty well in Sydney with these guys. Philly now has to go clear across the country to race in California, a costly trip with the fuel prices, etc. These California guys can drive to the race. Philly will then likely use these guys in Prague if they win again supporting them with Philly funds. And you are saying they shouldn't use these them to qualify for Prague because they are not from Philly? Good thing you aren't running the Philly organization.

The USDBF created the "supercrew" team concept eliminating the need to be a true club team for the US trials. Some think it was solely created to take Philly down. Since 2004 Philly has raced all-star teams from multiple areas of the US in the trials. And you criticize them for using the outside talent available to them? Get a life.

There's nothing wrong with Philly using non-Philly paddlers at the Nationals. In fact, they always have used non-Philly paddlers at the Nationals. The "supercrew" concept was not created to bring down Philly, for Philly was always the top supercrew (however you want to define it) anyway.

Philly is great but it is no Mayfair.

5 days till Mayfair gets there ass kicked again ! This is going to so good I'm going to bring popcorn to watch

Finally!
5 days till I get to kick an Anonymous ass! He will be the one chewing popcorn. I will be the one with a bat.

I think I'll even bring sprinkles too !

"Philly is great but it is no Mayfair."

You can't really compare the two because they seem to have different goals as clubs. From what I can tell, mayfair tries to field the best local 20 they can find and win local races and bring that boat to club crew's to compete. Philly on the other hand seems to have the goal to form the core of a team, supplement it with extra talent, and win nationals then send that boat to IDBF worlds(in as many classes as they can, except maybe GM). I think all other races they do are either practice or for money. I believe Montreal last year was a warm up for them, and club crews the year before(?) They did well but who knows if that was their whole team as it is tough to get everyone on board for a trip that far if it's "just a warm up race"

I think the only way to tell who's faster would be to have someone hold a race for substantial money and have both teams show with only paddlers from their club. Until then it's impossible to tell as nobody really knows what philly's best boat would look like.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as i don't really have inside info about these teams.

Pretty accurate assessment of Philly, there is no good circuit in the US like in Canada. Philly really doesn't race much at all in the course of a year. Other than the New York money race (which apparently has no money this year) and these warm up events for nationals or worlds you don't see them at many races. Mayfair on the other hand attends many events.

Philly coach, we all know it's you, get a life. You you can hold my paddle any time.

But the Philly coach is licensed to stitch your fingers together, so be careful. : )

What's with the new york race? No prize money? Will anyone race there if that is true?

Went to the web site, as of May 28 this is what it says under cash and prizes; nothing for the Open division listed and barely above entry fees for the mixed.

USDBOC Mixed Division

250M Winner N/A N/A N/A
500M Winner N/A N/A N/A
1000M Winner N/A N/A N/A
Overall Winner $1500
Overall Runner-Up $1000
Third Place $500

The Flushing festival is usually heavily supported by financial firms. Most NYC banks are having problems. It's going to be hard to find sponsors in this environment.

P-o-p-c-o-r-n , get your popcorn !!

it's going to be a ghost town in Flushing this year without Philly.
I can hear the crickets already.

Even with Philly, the Open Div is still a ghost town.