Ok, I just saw it on CNN, the price of Key Lime pie in Brooklyn, just went from $20 to $25 per pie
With the Bonzai Rally coming up, and the nearly sure inclusion of pie bonus, questions abound in my simple mind.
First, the Polaroid demise, now the price of pie is rising, Gasoline seems to be on a never ending escalator...... what is a Rally master to do?
I suppose you could consider pie a luxury (sorry Bill) but this gas price thing is going to cut into the riding budget, I am looking for ways to boost the efficiency on the OL' Mule. I know I have one cylinder a little more thirsty than the others, time to tweak the old carbs.
When I look at the bike road tests, in Rider Magazine, seldom do you see a 40+mpg listed. As for me, my Mule turns in 42-44 most of the time, but I have seen 49.9 a couple of times, just can't break the 50 mpg barrier
just rambling here, we had 10 inches of snow last Friday, all of it left yesterday with the 45-61 mph SW wind that lasted 26 hours,and 68F temp, sending the water your way Minnesota, get ready. The Little Creek that surrounds my house is currently flowing at least 10 times it's normal, and connects to the Minnesota River 18 miles east of here. So yup, you can blame the swelling Minnesota River on me, not that it matters.
Sunny and calm today, only 20 mph NW wind today,thats about as calm as it gets here on the Great Plains.....oh wait, my wind meter just dropped to 15 mph, ahh, life is good
The solution to the pie price problem is to increase wheat production, of course. Stupid ethanol.
Once upon a time, I contemplated buying the small bakery where I spent 15 years of hard labor. After reading about the recent increases in flour prices, I'd probably be on suicide watch right now if I had.
But the Dairy products were the culprit in the Key Lime pie, I would agree that world stocks of wheat are historically low,and when you factor in the growing population of this Good Green Earth, there is going to be some supply and demand spikes.
I would plant more wheat if we could get the fields to dry out a little quicker. Looks like corn and beans for me again this year, however I am planning to sow some winter wheat this coming fall.
I agree the bakers, especially small town types are getting hit hard, the flour, and the sweetener coming from dairy industry has all went through the roof. One of the key factors is, the Asian's have gotten a taste of breads and pastries..........and no surprise to me, they like it!
Takes a lot of grain to feed all those mouths.
The ethanol factor is probably getting more blame than it deserves, and I wonder what the price of gasoline would be without the billion gallons of ethanol that has been burned in the last months?
Contrary to the negative news regarding ethanol, production of corn ethanol is far more efficient than the naysayers will ever admit. One of the other key factors strategically omitted by the ethanol doomsday people is: The waste product from ethanol (dried distillers grains) is a great livestock feed, high in protein, and has helped the livestock feeder offset the higher price of corn. The CO2 byproduct in many states is stored, and purchased by the soft drink industry at reduced rates,so Pepsico and Coke can make a little more money. Of course sweetners have went up for those guys too.
Korea is buying all the distillers grain they can get their hands on,I am not sure if they are using it for human or animal food.
The weak US dollar will keep exports up, of all US grain products, which is going to end our cheap food era. However if we did not export grain, can you imagine the even bigger trade deficit? (another huge topic, not for this forum)
As near as I can tell the Cheap FUEL era ended a while ago.
Yeh Bart, the bakery would indeed have you increasing your meds,but hey, I would ride on over for a good solid piece of pie.
Well, the tire shop has my truck tire fixed gotta go!
rationing of rice at Sam's Club and Costco, Leno said it best, wish I had the exact words, but to the effect of Rice? who cares, now donuts, that would cause some problems. Pie, donuts, bread, what next?
The price of our chicken feed is way up, but they still don't lay golden eggs. The price of baked goods are up because the price of eggs are up. Looks like its time to start planting corn for food and not fuel.
who would like to be planting corn today, instead of watching the snow blow around,I feel it is my duty to defend the Corn and ethanol industry.
One major point, farmers are growing record acres of corn, and production of corn has been going up steadily for years. There is not shortage of corn...yet. Speculators in the market have pushed corn prices artificially higher than supply and demand would set it.
Farmers do not set the price,however we do plant acres based on the economical return,per crop. Speculators buy and sell contracts on the market based on what they think supply (farmers) and demand(users, ethanol, feeders)
Half of my corn goes to a Feedlot,where it is turned directly into beef,and the other half goes to a grain company, who may sell it for feed,ethanol or export. I have also sold a small percentage of my corn to be burned in corn stoves. If the half I sell to the grain company was sold to ethanol production it would be turned into 84,000 gallons of E100 ethanol, but it does not stop there,510,000 pounds of distillers grains would be produced from this corn.
Distillers grain is a high protein livestock feed,and can also be fed to poultry. Distillers grain is less costly to the livestock producer than straight corn, so it can help lower the feed ration price.
Only the starch in the corn goes into the ethanol,the protein content of corn is about 7.5%, but distillers grain has a 40-45% protein content.
All of you know livestock,poultry and humans need protein to live and build muscle mass. The Starch builds energy, or fat,if not burned off as physical activity.
The result can be higher protein content in meat, eggs,and milk, per dollar of feed input.
So why the increase in food prices? You can directly blame the cost of transportation (fuel) packaging, marketing, and profiteering.
Would it be above big business to raise the prices "just because they can", and they can point the finger at ethanol, leaving their greedy asses off the hook.
When you look at the amount of wheat in a loaf of bread, up from 12 cents to 20 cents, and compare to the amount bread has went up in stores, you will see what I am saying. The same goes for cereals, and many other processed foods.
While we may have a hard time believing there can be some good coming out of all this pain (at the gas pump, and grocery store) I think American's and American Business has been way to wasteful for way to long.
As a farmer, I must work on my efficiency in production of grains in order to survive. Why? you might ask, with all these high priced grains? Well the farmer's inputs (seed, fertilizer,fuel,chemicals and machinery) have gone up tremendously in the last 12 months, the battle for land to farm has just begun, and many other boring problems to most people.
John F Kennedy said it best in this quote:
The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways.
I was hauling corn this week,and stopped to fill my truck with diesel,I stopped pumping at $660.00 the tanks were not yet full. Last year my direct crop inputs (seed, chem,etc) was $105,000, this year it will be about $195,000 for the same acres.
During fall tillage last season, I was using $1000 per day of diesel, running 2 tractors, this fall it will be more. Yeah, I am happy that some of my grain goes to ethanol and bio diesel, where would the price of fuel be without the bio products displacing some of the petro products? Only a guess, but we believe the price of gas would be at least 40 cents more.
The quick and dirty summary: Don't be so quick to point the finger at ethanol, at least the money stays here in the USA and recirculates.
Take the time to learn a bit more about Corn and Ethanol by clicking on the link below.
Don't believe all the bad news you read in the paper, much of that info is baseless.
Another bright spot is: the leading edge for the new technology is right here in Minnesota and the Dakota's.
The U of M at Morris is leading world technology on Nitrogen fertilizer production from wind energy. The 2 leading Ethanol technology companies are headquartered in South Dakota, Fagen a top builder of ethanol facilities is in Granite Falls, Mn.
The best we can do is conserve where we can, shop smart, and Ride motorcycle, save some gas!
Send some warm and sunshime my way, I've got corn to plant!
I'll always remember my dad railing at the pernicious influence of the Chicago commodity futures market, and it's true that much of the run-up in prices is the result of commodity speculators. As the value of the dollar continues its freefall, investors flee equities for precious metals, oil and grains. Keep cutting interest rates, Chairman Bernanke - whatever it takes to make Wall Street and Kudlow happy!
While some farmers may benefit initially from these high prices (not all - hog farmers are in dire shape, losing $30/head due to feed costs), all agricultural producers will be hurt when the commodity bubble pops. My brother is very unhappy with the current scenario, 'cause when it pops, most of his input costs will not be following those prices downward.
All of this is part of an ongoing process, the shrinking of the American middle class and consumption, which is observable in declining motorcycle sales, for example. Sure, bikes get far better gas mileage, and the Goldfine mantra of "ride to work" makes more sense than ever. Unfortunately, the consumer is tapped out; home values are nowhere near bottom and the equity is already spent; downward pressure on wages (thank you, globalization) will inexorably continue.
What will become of LD riding and events if crude oil reaches $180/barrel, as is predicted by many for this summer? One reason I've never been an outspoken environmentalist is because I'm a motorcyclist and I despise hypocrisy; I burn fossil fuels for fun. Unfortunately, it's becoming harder to simply pay for this privilege, and given the tepid interest in some high profile, worthy LD events, I wonder if (IBR aside) we may be in the declining years of our collective hobby.
Or maybe I'm gloomy because it's snowing in St. Paul on April 26th...
I am glad to see that there i9s reasonable discussion on BOTH sides of the issue for a change, not just anti-ethanol. I do however do not buy into the myth that farmers buy everything at retail. I ran a Tractor Supply store, I know better.
Iowa State U has done a study on the Price of gasoline, and how ethanol has helped to check the upward spiral at the pump.
It is a good read if any of this matters to you.
The refineries are running at 85% of capacity,because there is not enough profit for them,with the high price of crude. Without ethanol displacing 7-10 billions of gasoline in the next year, I wonder if would be seeing gasoline rationing,in addition to high prices.
Corn ethanol is not all bad, contrary to big media's constant finger pointing,no doubt financed by Big Oil's realizing that a bunch of angry (stubborn) farmers in the midwest, started cutting into their greedy world.
Read it for your self, and see what you get out of it.
Two questions. If ethanol is really that great, why does it have to be government subsidized?? If ethanol is really that great, why does it take more energy to create the product than it puts out?
Ok one more. If ethanol ir really that great why hasent John Deere made a tractor to run on ethanol?? Just simple questions from a simple naysayer.
Nothing against you Shelden, or anyone else on this thread, but this is going to be a rant that I will probably regret as soon as I post it. This is not directed at anyone at all...
The argument that it takes more energy to make and distribute ethanol than it produces might be true, but the statement implies that crude oil is extracted for free energy-wise. It takes oil to get gasoline from crude too; I don't know what that efficiency is but if they are pulling it from deep water in the Gulf of Mexico I'd be shocked if its better than 50%. Corn-based ethanol seems like a pretty dumb idea, but if good guys like Bob Johnson get to make a few extra bucks from it then I say good on them. The farmers never whined much when they were taking it in the shorts for what, the last decade or so, so it's their turn. At least it's better than that algae-based biodiesel folly - the thermodynamics on that are a joke.
Back to the original thoughts on prices in general... When the hell will people stop whining about the price of food and gas in this country? Until you are spending 40%+ of you income on food I don't want to hear about it. Same with gas. Just pay the freaking bill and quit bitching. If you can't afford to drive to work then move closer to it (no, nobody said you couldn't loose money on your house). Christ, we've been fat, dumb and happy in this country for 17 years -- two quarters of flat GDP and the world's coming to an end?
Food costs more, energy costs more; get used to it. Raise your income, cut your expenses, or lower your expectations of life. Just don't bleat about how tough it is to get by here, because it's not tough. Not by a long shot. Not yet anyway.
Still, perk up, I'm sure president McCain/Obama/Clinton will fix everything. All our best solutions are in Washington.
Why does the Gov't subsidize ethanol? The Govt. subsidizes many industries,Ethanol happens to in the spotlight. When farmers were getting less than their cost for corn the Gov subsidized the farmer, corn was grown at a loss for years, and there was not enough uses for it. The subsidy has helped to build a new industry, which is capable of producing 13 billion gallons of ethanol by the end of 2008. Each barrel of ethanol displaces 1.2 barrels of crude oil.
While it was true that the production of ethanol took more energy to produce,years ago, since 1990 that is no longer true, and today's very efficient plants most certainly it is not true. That is one myth that needs to be stopped, and like "don't touch the gas pedal on a fuel injected car, when starting" is one of the most widespread "bad info" on ethanol. The amount of oil and water used to create a gallon of gasoline is no where near as efficient as ethanol. And the thing about corn ethanol, we already had corn, and the infrastructure to store and transport.
John Deere does not build big tractors to run on ethanol, as diesel is more efficient in high horsepower, high load applications. Their garden tractors will run on ethanol E10 to E30 just fine.
However one forward thinker did build cars to run on ethanol specifically. This man was Henry Ford, and his vision of renewable fuels, was sidetracked by the petroleum industry in the early 1900's and they have had a stranglehold on Americans ever since. Read for yourself: http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/papers/fuel.html
Steffan, I appreciate your outlook,since you have lived somewhere besides the Fat ol' USA, and you statements are correct, we are fat and spoiled in comparison to the rest of the world.
Let me say this, the price of corn is too high right now, farmers do not set the price of corn, do you think we would have set it at $1.30 in 2005, and now $5.40? Speculators have driven up the prices of commodities,not so much supply and demand. Why do I say the price of corn id too high? $5.00 corn will cost the livestock producer and the ethanol producer too much, and drive their profits down. All of the inputs needed to grow corn have doubled or tripled in the last 12 months, have the raw goods used to produce these products went up that much? The inputs based on petroleum have, others no, but all raised the prices..........because they could. Farmers cannot raise the price of what we produce, the market sets our prices.
Farmers would have been happy with $3.25 corn, and so would ethanol producers, livestock producers and importers, but that is not what happened, now the monster has been unleashed.
The price and usage of corn is NOT driving up the price of food. Less than 3% of corn produced in the USA is used for human consumption. Transportation of that food, is directly passed on to the consumer, you are seeing that.
Corn Ethanol plants are now beginning to extract some corn oil to be used as bio diesel, taken from the bi product distillers grain, which then makes the distillers grain an even more protein rich product.
This country runs on diesel, gasoline for cars can be conserved, by the average consumer, but industry needs diesel, another price hike seen at the pump, with diesel $4.15 here.
Big Oil should be welcoming an alternative fuel, so they continue to rob us longer, after all there is not an unlimited supply of crude in this world, and they are making record profits, even with all the ethanol that has been burned so far. Why are they fighting ethanol? Because for Big Oil it is not just profits, it is control. They are losing control of the markets, and worse yet, the politicians.
I have still not planted a kernel of corn, but the fields are drying up.
My sister is a TV news producer, based out of London. She's on a round the world jaunt covering the food/commodities price issues and recent riots. In the last week or so she's been to the US, Haiti, Argentina, Australia and the Philippines. She's on her way to India right now. Just got a personal email from her this morning, this is what she had to say about Haiti:
"Haiti, couple of hours away from the US is smelly, and hot and very, very poor. You may not have seen our report from there, but this a place where 80 percent are unemployed. There is simply nothing to do and no way to earn money because it has no industry, no tourism, nothing. So they eat sand cakes. Sand, mixed with sugar and butter to form a smooth paste which they bake in the sun because those living in the slums can't afford much else.. In the slums it's difficult to film. You have to drive through slowly, smiling, stop, and along with the local working with you, try and film without causing any offense. Most smiled back, a bit of a crowd gathered after about 10mins, a few of the young men stopped smiling so much, so we moved on."
I'll think about that next time I'm tempted to bemoan that I can't afford to take the family out to Red Lobster once a week or that I set my thermostat at 63 over the winter to send a few less dollars to Xcel.
Bob -- you are clearly well informed and a nice guy, but I have to call you on one thing. You say that "Farmers cannot raise the price of what we produce, the market sets our prices." Dude, thats true of just about everything from corn to oil to trucking rates to my time.
I went to take off for school this morning, the battery was dead on the bike.
Seems the demand for lead in Chinese manufactured electronics has outstripped world supply.
I am just saying, bring your heart medication and that funny paddle machine when you go battery shopping.
The ambulance is here,got to go...
Critter
If ethanol is such a good deal why does it have to subsidized. That holds the same for any subsidy. If you can make it cheaper, faster, better, you won't need a subsidy. The market will take care of itself.
Ken (ethanol is a scam) Bryant
It's subsidized as a method of bringing money to the breadbasket of the US, where money is needed more. It's not a scientifically-based movement. It's economics. It's less short-sighted than a good portion of today's legislation. It's not good for the consumer, immediately. It's good for the USA on the whole. I don't like it but I feel that I understand part of the movement and see the benefits. It's kind of nice to see some people thinking about tomorrow. And I'm not talking about Prius owners, motorcycle commuters, or those wearing green ribbons.
Having spent the last few days south of here...NOTHING has been planted, corn or otherwise, as far south as I-70. Iowa looks like it's April 1st at best. Thank Al Gore, or the baby Jesus, or whomever you blame for mother nature.
Think food and energy prices are high now? Wait until the fall futures hit the fan.
1) Yikes, I need a powerwasher to clean the mud off of my hack!
2) I think I found a bonus almost as spidery-creepy as the Big Oak S.P. thing on BL III; yes, I hiked the 1/4 mile out to the site all by myself.
3) The Amish have it all figured out. I saw a team of three very sturdy draft horses pulling a four row planter (one of the very few active field displays I saw). Can't live that way? Maybe there won't be a choice one day.
4) Who is "Mittens"? What does he have to do with a perennial motorcycle rally?
5) Who was right during the Civil War, Kansas or Missouri? Discuss.
6) I live three blocks from an amazing example of Frank Lloyd Wright architecture. Relevance?
7) And finally, who knew James' Pecan Farms were such a vital part of the so-called Missouri Pecan Belt?
Re: for wayne, chris and the rest (no MN1K content)
May 8 2008, 7:49 AM
That was a fun ride. The "courtesy" stop and roadside chat with the county LEO, my R100RT sounding like the engine was going to throw a rod or something equally disastrous, finding our way through I-494 Sunday morning traffic, and making it to the rally checkpoint with about 2 minutes to spare.
It takes 6 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol... not good.
Not enough energy is created from ethanol to make it a good thing...
If the USA used all of its corn crop to make ethanol we would satisfy 10% of our gasoline needs.
Food costs are up, partial from the demand for corn. Hog farmers are losing money. Cattle farmers are reducing their herds, so less beef will make beef prices rise. More people grow corn because it pays, so other cereals prices go up due to lack of product.
Is ethanol something to research and investigate? Yes it is... To have it propped by the government is BS. We don't need to be spending tax dollars on multi million dollar refineries that do not deliver a quality product nor will it lessen out dependence on foreign oil.
Hers the fix (kinda)...
Electric vehicles. Volvo and other manufactures have electric cars, based off of current models, that will drive for 60 miles on pure battery. More than enough for the average commuter. You create the electricity with nuclear power. To make this work you have to get the govt. to rewrite the regulations on nuclear power. The French (*shudder*) are recycling spent fuel rods and extending the life of them while reducing the waste. Their nuclear plants waste is inert metals and very lower radio active glass. So low in radiation that it can be stored outside with a fence around it. No protective encasement. A nuclear plant puts out a tny fraction of the waste that a "clean burning" coal plant puts out.
The unknown is the carbon footprint of the battery, from creation to recycle...
Also the Govt. needs to stop buying light sweet crude. This is the type of oil that is best for making gas. Th USA is the largest purchaser of this, in direct competition with oil companies. This drives the price skyward. We can use the sour crude for our reserves. Sure it creates more waste when burnt, but its a reserve, not the everyday stuff... So govt quite pumping oil from the ground to put it right back in the ground.
And yes... we have enough oil in the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska to see us for the next few generations. PLus there was a huge find of oil in Colorado, its just embeded in sand, which makes it hard to get to.
Just my .02 worth
p.s. If I was a farmer and could grow corn I'd be all over it!
The only thing I know for sure about ethanol is that it makes my bike run like crap and it smells bad.
A Short Rant:
I think back to my youth (60's) and there was all this turmoil in America; political assassinations, long protracted war in third world country, racial riots in major cities, yet the scientific community was able to build this incredible Space Program and actually travel to another planet and return safely....several times !!!!!!
What is my point?......I am at a constant state of disgust, that with all our techno experience and R&D potential, the best "fuel enhancing" policy we have, is to dilute the gas with f*ck*ng corn syrup !!!!!!!
-Whatever happened to the developement of real synthetic fuels?
-Popular Science mag had us believing that Flying Cars were right around the corner.
-Atomic power was going to render electricity, "too cheap to meter".
We have lots of problems in America, but we are still the Best Game on this planet. My dream is that America stops it's whinning, and starts kicking ass to take care of itself, instead of pissing around trying not to upset or offend those that don't like us.
If you are the person who is sitting around waiting for the next Administration to make your life better....I got a news flash for you. YOU ARE SOME KIND OF LOSER!!!! Go to the back of the line and give up your spot to someone how actually wants to work and produce something.
All this pissin' and moanin' has given me a headache.....
After 28 years of market fundamentalism, deregulation, the privatization of profit and socialization of risk, suddenly - who could have expected it? - our eternal lack of an energy policy is an issue. So let's all grab our boot straps, pull ourselves up and get to work, by golly. We need more tax cuts, more deregulation and more self-reliance. That'll work.
Highly amusing listening to el Rushbo explain "supply and demand" on his show today; he used the example of the demand for Gulfstream private jets ("for models not even built yet!") as proof that there is no oil crisis. I'm sure the truckers of America took heart at that.
Try Fareed Zakaria's new book to find out where we're headed. It's not all doom and gloom, but we as a country are going to have to live differently. Them good ol' days ain't a comin' back.
I have not read the book, but I agree,the future is not all bad. The high prices we are experiencing are opening new industries, ethanol is one of them.
Today I was in Benson, Mn, and I had noticed a new power plant built and now running. But there was no coal, and I know there is no fuel oil plant going to be built anywhere in oil short Minnesota.
My curiosity got the best of me, I stopped in,and talked to the office girl at the NAF building attached to the plant by conveyor.
NAF is North American Fertilizer, trucks were coming and going. The nice (very busy) young lady informed me That the power plant next door, burns turkey barn manure for fuel, and the ash is a rich fertilizer sold to farmers to grow corn. Hmm this good news, somehow escaped being reported in my neck of the woods, 60 miles away. Electricity from turkey droppings,fertilizer from the bottom of the boiler, good stuff.
Would this have happened a few years ago? probably not, new problems bring new solutions.
Good news travels slow and short, bad news travels fast and far.
Anyhow thanks for all of the good solid discussion, Corn will continue to be grown, for food or fuel, how it is used the market will decide, along with help from our "all seeing government"
Just down the road 1/2 mile from the Turkey fuel power plant is one the most profitable corn ethanol plants, this one makes Shakers brand Vodka, along with ethanol for fuel. There is probably more money selling ethanol by the pint than by the gallon, food,fuel,spirits, corn syrup,sweetener,and corn oil for bio diesel. These are only a few of the many many uses for corn. A biodegradable plastic,foam for car seats,and plastics, all are coming form the ever present corn plant.
The real problem will be when wheat gets high enough to displace barley in North Dakota, and BEER becomes a rationed commodity........... the original discussion began over a $25.00 Key Lime pie in New York. I still would not buy the pie, but this shows how all commodities are related, in the Real World marketplace.
I did plant a field of soybeans today, in the light drizzle,I never turned off the wipers, I guess if you are not planting in the mud, you are not planting in my area.
So Marty...will you be defending your IB title with a battery or nuclear GS? Somehow I don't see you being satisfied with the sustained performance capabilities of battery power.
After 14 days of shoving what should have been 40 days of field work, the crop is planted. Driving tractors for 18+ hours per day, tap dancing around wet spots, keeping the supplies on hand to run long after the suppliers have closed down for the day, has taken it's toll. But it is done.
With plenty of time to think,while running various tractors, I did come upon a new feeling of: The world needs my products...........
This may not seem big, but a few years ago, like 2005, we were barely able to give our grain away, and that took it's toll too.
However, profit or not, farmers will produce grain, it's what we do.
Now we need some rain, and I have weeds, gotta kill a few billion weeds.
