Drivers nabbed by the now-outlawed photo-cop red-light enforcement program in Minneapolis will get most of their fines back and their records cleansed under a settlement approved today by the Minneapolis City Council.
The proposed $2.6 million settlement would reimburse roughly 15,000 drivers who got tickets under the program, according to attorneys. They paid $142 each but legal fees and other costs will be subtracted from that under the settlement.
But the city's sign-off on the settlement is contingent on the state and Hennepin County also agreeing to their split of the fine money toward the settlements.
The conviction for running a red light will also be expunged from driving records, according to Marshall Tanick, the lead attorney for drivers involved.
"That's very important to people," he said. The city will pay $10,000 toward the state's costs to expunge records.
Tanick said that those convicted also will get a letter that they can use with their insurer to argue against cancellation or revocation of insurance or rate increases that may have resulted.
The city's photo surveillance program used images of vehicles that ran red lights to cite the owner of the vehicle. The Minnesota Supreme Court last year backed the ruling of lower courts that holding the owner of a vehicle responsible for the actions of whoever was driving it was unconstitutional.
The county had earlier dismissed citations issued to 4,200 people that hadn't been sent on to the court.
The agreement was negotiated in a class-action lawsuit brought on behalf of the drivers where were ticketed and paid fines. The city also agreed to pay the state $10,000 for the costs of expunging the offense from driver license records.
The state and city would each refund about $1.3 million, with the county returning the roughly 50,000 it received in law library fees, according to Tanick. The County Board is scheduled to discuss the proposal in a closed briefing on Tuesday. The state will refund license reinstatement fees for those who lost licenses because of the red light violation.
"The stop-on-red system was ill-advised to begin with and we're glad that after three years we're finally able to provide everyone with the relief their entitled to," Tanick said.
A Hennepin County District Court judge ruled in November in favor of returning fines to 147 people who asked for their cases to be reopened. The settlement affects anyone who was ticketed under photo cop. The settlement will be advertised and notices mailed to members of the class-action lawsuit.
I've always been against "photo-cop", supportive of libertarian arguments, against big brother, blah, blah, blah. That said, how many bikers and cagers have been killed by fools running red lights on Portland Ave@35th Street, for example?
Many; you know that if you've lived here the 27 years I have.
I am tired of the impunity with which we Americans are allowed to maim and kill our fellow citizens with our vehicles and then walk away relatively unscathed. The guy who dragged the young girl a few blocks in St. Paul last year, causing her to lose an arm and use of one leg, is already out of jail. Yes, he'll likely be deported - taking bets on how long it takes for him to get back to MN? The cop in Rosemount who killed the biker got "careless driving", $285 fine (just like my crippler) and 40 hours community service. He's "devasted"; and he's working and will "move on".
Or Janklow.
What's wrong with the European model? Fuck up, and you lose forever. I know, some of my fellow riders and friends wouldn't be driving (legally) anymore. Sounds like too high a price, unless it happens to you...
"The stop-on-red system was ill-advised to begin with and we're glad that after three years we're finally able to provide everyone with the relief their entitled to,"
Yeah - like stopping at a fucking red light is a bad idea.
"The Minnesota Supreme Court last year backed the ruling of lower courts that holding the owner of a vehicle responsible for the actions of whoever was driving it was unconstitutional. "
If you want better traffic enforcement lobby with your city officials for more police presence on the street. And be prepared to pay for it.
Fred's points are 100% correct. I don't disagree with the fundamental judicial decision here.
As to whether we'll pay for the laws and their enforcement: of course we will not, no chance, for the same reason our roads and our wars are paid for by Chinese-owned bonds.
There are trenches in the pavement on I-94 between Cretin Avenue and downtown St. Paul that will likely put a few bikers down this riding season; can't seem to do road repair anymore, too busy running for VP I guess. Good for the lawyers, though.
He's still working for Dakota County, but has desk duty/no gun fun. Evidently he is no longer eligible to work as a law enforcement officer in Dakota County, but is not banned from such employment elsewhere. (http://www.twincities.com)
I'm not suggesting that, as a LEO in training, he should be held to some higher standard. Just my opinion, but he's getting what everyone gets in this situation, a slap on the wrist in comparison to the motorcyclist.
My rant was mainly about how we Americans view our privilege to operate motor vehicles. Like gun ownership abuses, there's nothing much to be done at this point (you can even make assassination jokes at the NRA convention and it's teh funny!). It's hopeless and frustrating, that's all.
I also oppose photocop, but in reference to the "sold your car" position, Minnesota would be wise to take the route
of Wisconsin and other states, where the plates go with the owner, not with the car. This would prevent morons from buying cars with time left on the tabs, and not transferring the title when they aren't eligible to drive.
I recently tried to cancel the auto insurance on my Dad's car. Turns out that in NY you can't cancel your insurance until you turn in your plates to the state and get a receipt, which you then take to the insurance company. So I had to call my brother in New Mexico, where the car is now and have him send the plates back so I could cancel the plates in NY. PIA. But I'm sure the insurance companies love it.
to weigh in on this subject. But.........you gave me the medium.
The license and insurance regulations vary way too much between states,too much confusion. Way too many people are driving without proper insurance, and license. And most certainly way too many people are poor, to terrible drivers. Running a stoplight is a serious offense, and any way to curb it should be explored and implemented. I would think in today's world, a pic could be taken of the driver,and the owner of the vehicle should have a chance to prove who was driving the vehicle. If it is his vehicle, and someone else is driving,he should know who it is, and the facts should support it.
I think people who are on the phone, creeping into the intersection,anticipating the green light, need to be stopped, people get killed from these actions, speeding through a yellow/red is a huge problem...especially when Mr creeper, and Mr yellow light speeder meet.
When I am in the bigger cities, which I avoid if possible, I am amazed more people are not killed every day.
Bad drivers are everywhere, and avoiding these irresponsible people is a full time job.
On another note I am sure when I am driving in the city, I am the hazard, as I hear the horn and get the finger frequently, for driving a little more cautious than the SOB behind or beside me.
Life is better without stoplights, we now have 4 in our county,and I can remember when we got our 1st one.
The problem is only going to get worse, I see young people now texting while driving, tell me how that works, at least I could imagine talking on the phone,and keeping some eyes on the road, texting?? chatting on the laptop while driving??? ouch looks like trouble here.
I am for anything that helps to uphold the laws in fair way.
I know , a lot of talk from a guy who does not deal with this stuff every day.
in theory photo red light cameras are not a problem, in actual practice its been showt time and time gain that the yellws got shortened when the cameras were installed. It was not a safety program, it was an income program. The Yellow lights got shortened a LOT when a camera was put in place.
Interesting thing about red light cameras. They seem to reduce red light running and accidents that are caused by running red lights but rear end accidents increase dramatically.
<snip from above article>
In Lubbock, city council members eventually deployed red light cameras in the summer of 2007 after completing a series of timing tests at all twelve of the intersections scheduled to receive the cameras. As of February, 2008, however, the cameras are back down. While the cameras were initially credited with reducing the total number of crashes in Lubbock by 5.5 percent, rear-end crashes at the intersections in question rose 90 percent. The cameras also failed to generate sufficient revenue while they were deployed in Lubbock, which undoubtedly contributed to the city's decision to can the program. Several months after the cameras were switched off, the question of their use and effectiveness remains a hot topic in Lubbock.
</snip>
Bottom line in this country is if you can't prove it was me doing the crime, than it wasn't me. Period, the end. So either put my smiling mug in the picture behind the wheel of the car or you can not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that I was driving the car.
Like gun laws, the red light cameras are a step down a slippery slope. Next it will be speed cameras on the freeways. Not a good thing. You want better enforcement, get more cops I just shuddered at the thought
Another Article states that Dallas is scrapping the Red Light program because it no longer generates enough income to support itself.
Marty sez:
"Like gun laws, the red light cameras are a step down a slippery slope. Next it will be speed cameras on the freeways. Not a good thing. You want better enforcement, get more cops I just shuddered at the thought"
I think the UK already has "speed cameras". They are apparently not very popular. (surprise!)
Doesn't help the cell phone problem. I avoid using the cell when in the car, and now that I have a stick-shift car again, I can't be on the phone when I'm in traffic and changing gears (great excuse to hang up). Maybe we should return to manual transmissions - more burned-up clutches (been there, done that) could create a few more jobs for mechanics....naw, on second thought, ya already got people balancing phones and food and whatever while trying to drive, I'm sure they'd figure a way to shift, too (or just shift without the clutch).
Have a great Memorial Weekend all, I'm Bonzai-bound!
Pat
