SHAMbala also deleted their forum. These are the posts from there today.
by Christine
Again, I don't see anything particularly nasty except their (Sham's) attitudes.
"Responsible ownership"
Posted By Pam Thompson on August 31, 2000 at 14:28:03:
How can anyone possibly consider this bill to be anything other than self serving to Tippi and her coherts?
This is set up to do away with responsible ownership.
AND WILL COST THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS THEIR LIVES.
This bill has nothing to do with Animal Welfare. This bill is unconsitutional to say the very least and will wind up costing thousands to enforce. It is nothing more than a smokescreen to protect the rights of people like Tippi, the San Antonio group and others like them. Those that have big cats attack their children because they let them SLEEP with their children are idiots. Other sanctuaries have proven themselves not to be qualified to take care of animals, and have been in trouble with USDA. Instead of putting the blame where it belongs, this SHAM takes away the rights of the thousands who have responsibly cared for their animals and never been fined by USDA, or brought up on charges or suffered incidents.
Continue to remove my posts and I will continue to dig deeper.
"Shambala Bill"
Posted ByLorraine on August 31, 2000 at 14:08:16:
I have been trying to educate myself and look at all aspects of this bill and I just can't make sense out of it.
From what I gather the only ones that will be able to care for these animals mentioned, including wolfdogs, are those sancuaries that are chosen to be part of the Sanctuary Association or those that care come up with the funds to meet the requirements. Basically, those that are wealthy. If this is the case, there will not be enough places to house all the thousands of animals that are out there. The end result will be the needless death of many beloved companions. There isn't any way for the average American person to meet the requirements placed in the bill so that they can continue to keep there beloved friend(s).
I think it is great that there are places that can take in unwanted animals or animals that come from circumstances that were not desirable ones. I am the first to help out if I can, and I have at times. The problem with your way of thinking is that you think that all exotic and not so exotic animals are grouped in the same category. When you think of the amount of people that have provided good, loving, healthy homes for their beloved friends (and I know a lot of them across the United States) verses those that don't, the good definately out ways the bad. So instead of taking these animals from the only home, people and love they have ever known, you have to think of ways to end the bad situations and practices.
Not end the lives of many animals that are with responsible people. People who have dedicated their lives to the well being of their companions. These are animals that will pay the price for being what they are, "exotic" or "wolfdogs".
There are many wolfdogs that have done great things and yet because you are ignorate (lack of knowledge)
about wolfdogs and to the abilities of these animals, not to mention their capabilities to love, you think they should all be killed. Have any of you truly had any experience with a well socialized animal that has lived with a family. I'm talking a family that has done all the right things? They are remarkable.
I know that you have heard the story that Patti Nickerson has made claims of a wolfdog killing her little girl.
Please find out all the facts about that situation before you decide that all wolfdogs should be killed. She claimed that wolfdogs weren't around or much wasn't known about them at the time and that is why she made the wolfdog claim years later. In my opinion, that is hogwash. Wolfdogs have been around longer then I have been around. I remember hearing about them when I was a very small child, and I am 36 now. So please before you use a name and situation to develop an opinion, or to back your cause - do you homework first and check out the reputation of the person as well as the facts. I have done my homework and I have found many holes in her story.
I am one that gets very angry when I hear of animals living in undesirable conditions, being abused in every sense of the word, or about people running puppy mills or have breeding practices that all unethical. I try to do my part and try to help put an end to it. You are not alone in fighting this mentality.
There are many of us who go out on a limb for these animals. Lets focus on coming up with a way to put an end to the unethical people not destroy the lives of thousands of animals, not to mention the lives of good families that have these animals. I love my animals and provide for them very well. They have very secure living quarters, lots of love and care, and they are more than companions to me and my family, they are family members. When I get an animal, I make a lifetime committment to my animals. I can't imagine my life without them, they are my life and I do use all my abilities to make them acceptable companions (and they are)so they can help me educate people as to the care and well being of them. (No, I do not promote everyone running out and getting a wolfdog either.) However, from the way you are thinking, as a result of the bad owners in the country you want to take my companions from me and kill them. Something is wrong with this picture.
What is this? A few bad apples spoils the bussel! There are alot of good responsible owners out there that go above and beyond to care for their companions. I think we deserve the right to keep our animals.
If I have not interperated this correctly please correct me and answer the questions people have asked about the bill so we can have a clearer understanding of what the bill is about.
Thanks, Lorraine
"What's the deal?!"
Posted ByDawn on August 31, 2000 at 11:35:05:
Are you all going to answer any real and concrete questions?
Why did Tippi tell us that she wants all wolfdogs destroyed?
How is that destruction going to be implemented when you can't tell the difference between them and purebred dogs? You just going to kill ALL dogs by benefit?
Do you not care that private owners take better care of these animals then some
sanctuaries i've heard of and seen? Why try to pass legislation that makes it impossible for anyone but the rich to afford these animals? Why are sanctuaries exempt when many (most?) accidents occur there? And shouldn't Tippi be included in this as she had no experience when she got started up either and attacks resulted?
Do you care that thousands of well cared for and healthy animals are going to be destroyed if this bill gets passed? Are they better off dead if you can't make a profit off of them? Is that what this is about? Or is it about trying to grasp at some minimal amount of fame?
Tell you what. You've inspired me to become a Zoologist and make a career out of thwarting such legislation and idiotic attitudes towards qualified and experienced private owners that do more to save these "wild"
animals then you do with this "Sham" of a bill.
Why can't you answer our questions? you just delete all the posts you dislike. I'll tell you why i think you won't answer... because the ONLY answer you have is lies and you know we will all see through lame excuses.
Leave me and my dogs alone. You don't know the first thing about them and cannot be experienced enough to pass legislation on them.
Do me a favor and come and meet these animals you want destroyed for merit of being part wolf.
Disgusted, Dawn
"When the Truth Hurts, Remove it?"
Posted By Stormy on August 31, 2000 at 00:56:18:
That shows how much a "Sham" this really is.
You would try to stop owners rights, and when you are "surprised" at their reactions, you remove what you "don't" want to see.
Typical of people who are not telling the truth. Which means there is usually a hidden agenda.
Your group is pathetic.
Stormy
"Routine Clearing"
Posted BySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:
We will no longer tolerate libelous, slanderous and malicious messages on this forum.
All such messages will be regularly removed.
"Routine avoidance aka Routine Clearing"
Posted ByDawn on August 31, 2000 at 11:39:26:
In Reply to: Routine Clearing posted bySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:
That's it! Label honest questions that you cannot answer with HONESTY as "libel".
Hmmm... well, what i'm saying is going to hurt the integrity of shambala and the bill but not because it isn't true. You do all the defamation on your own!
And refusing to answer questions is just another example.
I hope the people you duped into thinking you care about animals realize how many of these "wonderful"
creatures you are working to have killed and taken from healthy, safe and experienced homes. This is a "I'm better then you are" legislation ploy and nothing more.
Well being famous doesn't make you a better person, a better care taker, or an expert on animals.
Get off it.
Dawn
"Re: Routine Clearing "
Posted ByBob on August 31, 2000 at 11:08:29:
In Reply to: Routine Clearing posted bySunny J. Harris on August 31, 2000 at 00:04:36:
What are you afraid of. I read a lot of the posts you deleted and found them truthful, concerned and pointed.
They just were not pointed where you wanted to go.