I've got the money - you've got the items that I would like ........

Why do various members have a problem with shipping outside the US - I'll pay via Paypal in any currency that you like, deliveries to the UK can be tracked, WTF is the problem ?

I have a feeling that members without a passport are only happy to ship within the geographic region that their current travel permits allow ......Or am I being biased & unreasonable ...........??????????????

Technical downloads can be found here :

http://michael57d.diinoweb.com/files/SCWF/

were prepared to send overseas. I just had to ask them what the extra shipping cost would be.

Perhaps I was lucky.



Tony Lewis
New Zealand

You just did the correct thing and asked Tony. Ive NEVER refused when asked nicely and sometimes do not charge any extra. J.T.

exactly what they want when it is staring them in the face..But the bottom line is that the item is owned by the seller, and it is thier choice..Items that I list as US only on the worlds favorite auction site are always negotiable as far as that goes and I usually put a note in the description that if anyone is that interested internationally I will open the auction to them providing they state an intention to bid..It just seems to weed out alot of bum questions and such for me..But in a "quiet" forum such as the SCTF I see no reason whatsoever to limit sales to the US only..But it will still happen no matter what..Maybe it is the fact that you have to fill out the customs form = extra work?? lol

Tony

I have bought a few items stated CONUS.........as others have said i have asked the question and some sellers have agreed for just a small extra to the shipping, a few have said they would rather not and in that case i know a really great forum member who lives in the States who has let me use his address, the seller then ships to him and then he forwards them on to me, and never had a problem yet, Thanks L B
ps: When all said and done it is the sellers decision any way.

I've sold several items on e-bay and when I sell, I limit bidding to US bidders. No real issues shipping to Alaska or Hawaii. Invariably, given the nature of the items I sold, I would get requests to sell to overseas bidders.

I don't care to deal with the customs forms, having to figure out shipping or having to deal with the delays in overseas delivery. If I were selling as a business, I would probably feel differently about it.

The one time I did sell overseas (Eastern Europe), everything went just fine, except the item got held up in the other country's customs for over a week. No doubt I worried more than the buyer, but I did get some e-mails about the delay and I did fret quite a bit over it because I felt it was my responsibility to get the valuable item to the buyer (not simply to get the item in the mail). On the other hand I have never had a problem with the US mail.

Bottom line, selling within the US was simply a lot less stressful for me (albeit likely at the expense of larger profits).

Doug

your responsobility is not to deliver it to buyers hands, this could only be met if you hand deliver it. when people bid, it's inherent that they understand that you do your best to deliver it in best packaged material to post office and provide them with tracking.

requesting anything else is unreasonable. people may buy insurance but that's also only after item hasn't arrived and even after waiting for month, proving u sent this item, then items ownership, etc u will get $ back.

now, u stated that you dont wanna deal with customs forms, well i dunno if u ever filled them out or not, but if u doit through paypal, u just fill out 3-4 extra fields and all is printed for you. just sign/date and drop off at office...

Law and reality are often two very different things when one wishes to lead a simple life. I choose to avoid the extra work (and yes I have filled out customs forms in the past) and I choose to avoid the potential problems that attend overseas sales. It is a personal decision on my part---you are free to disagree and sell your items as you choose, just as you are free to express yourself as you chose, with or without insults and with or without the benefit of a dictionary.

Doug

My wife sells many items on ebay, and the overseas sales invariably come with problems. The buyers usually don't understand the long shipping times, customs delays or difficulty in tracking. They often want my wife to misrepresent the contents, which usually means longer customs holds and loss of USPS tracking ability. All this effort hardly makes up for the slim profits she makes on these items. When she tries to add extra charges for the extra effort, then the buyer usually stops corresponding. I'm afraid it's a losing game for the seller. Just my honest opinion.

Express Mail Int'l or Priority Mail Int'l. The cost isn't
bad, and never had a problem There really is no reason why
someone from here can't ship int'l. Especially if paypal is being
used because the labels are printed for you. All one needs are the
label holders that get applied to the package. These are needed to
ship Int'l. Otherwise, there is no other difference.

Twicks, I will be happy to be a middle man for you if you ever need one.
JB

most of them dont wanna bother filling customs papers, or just dont know how to do that.

not much will change their mind, if they aint open minded by now, they are a lost cause

i sold to every continent as far as i know and i make it clear regarding charging and reasonable tracking people should expect. if they are agree with that then thats what i use.

Often I see an ad for an item in Canada seeking a "local" transaction. Other times I see a European request for the same in Europe. To me, the ignorant, it makes perfect sense. If I own something and wish to sell it "locally" on my terms, so what? After all it's mine, and I can decide how cheaply to sell it and where to sell it. I have always sold items quickly, locally, and without the services of Paypal. It's fast, easy and keeps the hobby fresh for me.

or something. your points aren't valid since it's not cumbersome to send something to different country. not like they probe you analy before they let u mail something...

gotta ask a favor of you

cheers~sodapop

going to bed now, i'll check it in the morning

from an angry person for the most part..It all comes back down to what I said earlier : The person selling it owns it and it is the choice of the seller..Bottom line..Who is to say that they are not using both the newspaper, the internet and word of mouth?? No one knows but the seller..

Tony

i am not angry since i live in the usa, so it doesn't concern me. i just feel that people dont wanna deal with it for stupid reasons, ie as in reasons that don't make sense.

as long as other party knows and agree regarding delivery, there shouldn't be any issues

All kinds of stuff never ever a problem the C.O.N.U.S only IS A CROCK.

Lighten up and send it's that easy

..as someone said above, it's the seller's decision on how they want to sell their stuff and where they wish to ship.

I do not use Paypal and prefer to deal with customers in the CONUS because, yes, I don't want to hassle with any potential customs forms, unknown shipping costs, delayed payments, etc. especially because I include shipping in the CONUS in my pricing and adding extra shipping costs to foreign countries just complicates the matter.

Coming up with non-sensical ideas as to why some people prefer to sell CONUS only doesn't help the debate.

My two cents,

-Marc

i see your points of course and i am same way, however....

simple addition of, for internation orders add $25. simple and effective. cost start at $19 for 1lb and $24 for 2lbs

customs is simple form. delayed payments, well if u dealing in the usa, i assume MO or bank transfer are your means? if so, then bank transfer internationally shouldn't be a delay issue. anyhow...

my biggest issue i suppose, in this forum, obviously we are here for support, help, ideas, regarding watches. but also to sell and buy.

and say u have a nice piece that a person in UK wants and for them it's hard to find the piece locally. the conus, basically cuts him off and it's a shame, because part of being on forum and help and support, also has to do with helping people attain things.

i sent numerous packages to people(acted as a proxy), because i know its hard to find that item in their country.

but i disgress...

Some view international shipping as complicated and risky, they want to stick to what the know. I know I was that way when I first started selling on Ebay so many years ago. Even though I stated "ConUs Only" someone from overseas used Buy-It-Now on an item I was selling. He apologized profusely for not seeing my ConUs but I figured I might as well give it a try. I discovered it was pretty painless and it all worked out.

If I have some reservations on a certain country or buyer/seller, I will contact someone on the forum who is from that country (thanks Martog!) and ask for shipping advice.

Now I have shipped all over the world and have purchased form around the globe too.

I have the same issue, never had any problems buying and selling anywhere. Except for one trade with a person who was dishonest, but that could have happened anywhere. I think some people have a problem with international trade. maybe the cost of postage?

It does annoy me that people put CONUS only.

once to Spain when I included 5 to have lumed. Spanish customs did not believe it and thought the receiver was buying them! My fault! So now i just send 1 or 2 at a time haha! Otherwise, no problems at all. Might it have to do with Japan being the country of origin? not sure...

were restricted to also only buying locally, they would squeal horribly.

The SCTF, other sales forums, ePay etc. all have international audiences and advertising a watch that will only be sold to a local market is rather unfair and somewhat discriminatory.

I simply don't buy any of the arguments given for not selling internationally; there are just as many bad deals to be had at home as abroad...we see them posted here all the time

------------------------------------------------

if i did not sell watches outside usa, then t.wong would never bought my watch.

and, we would never correspond and then send each other bunch of emails per day. in the end we ended up chatting via MSN, for hours at a time, daily.

regarding watches, advice, life, etc...

i gained a good friend, who i would have never had a chance to meet if i was stuck to CONUS.

Hi Michael, i understand the concern of some sellers as they prefer less hustle in their transaction. I recently bought a watch from SCTF with the seller being from the US and noting that he would ship only CONUS. I contacted him and I said I will pay him the full amount plus shipping charges via bank wire (the best option for him), and he accepted. After that we both got puzzled as we realised that he couldn;t send the watch via EMS insured but only through USPS (albeit without tracking!!!!). After two weeks of wait, I received an invoice from Parcelforce UK saying that I have to pay £70=$130 for customs charges (based on the amount of insurance). I am a bit annoyed with this as I hadn't budgeted for it but there's noone to blame.
I would also like to note that I trade primarily through the UK watch forum TZ-UK where I can send/receive any item by next day afternoon at low cost and no hustle. I would also hesitate to sell any items abroad.

Cheers,
Pavlos

It's just being lazy, Papers, forms, stamps... why bother..??

I've shipped a load, and it's funny to ship local for me is more difficult than to Poland or Pakistan...

I must say I realy don't like Con US only....

Because everyone needs at least 10 watches

I admit it; I am too lazy to ship outside the US. I am also too lazy to mow my own yard, wash the cars and lots of other tasks I consider to be mundane (just ask my wife). But on the other hand living in the Chicago suburbs I spend 3 hours a day commuting to work and I work long hours at a very stressful job and I am really never away from my work thanks to the BlackBerry.

On behalf of all the ignorant, lazy Americans who chose not to sell or ship outside of the United States, I apologize. I take all the points made against the "US sales only" stand as very valid. Sellers who limit their markets are imposing limits on their social contacts, limiting their profits, and hurting the feelings of a lot of very nice people who would like to purchase these restricted sale items.

Without a doubt restricting one's market is a very poor business decision. But I collect as a hobby and when I sell off items I have collected, I do so as a hobby. In the US we have priority mail. I choose to use it in 90 percent of my transactions because it is so easy. The US post office provides new boxes at no cost and a flat rate for shipping anything that fits in these boxes. The buyers get the items in 2-3 business days and I have 100 percent positive feedback.

I have bought and sold overseas. It is not that hard, but it is a bit more work and a bit more stressful for the parties involved. If buying and selling overseas was easier than doing business within the US, that's what I would do. There is no hidden agenda of discrimination. I typically chose not to buy overseas for many of the same reasons I do not sell overseas.

If an overseas seller is willing to do the extra work to sell to me, I might buy from that seller. But the customs delays, varying quality of delivery services and high cost of shipping can make a return difficult for both parties and these are some things I factor in as a buyer, and one of the reasons I don't sell overseas.

Here are just a few of my experiences. As I mentioned earlier I sold an item to a buyer in Eastern Europe---the buyer contacted me after the item was long over due. I had to go digging through my papers to send him the shipping information to help him track down his package. He eventually found it, but I had to deal with a buyer who likely was wondering if he had just been robbed, either by me or some postal or customs employee. I spent a good half hour to an hour extra on that transaction dealing with the unpleasant situation. I have sold and shipped an item to a Canadian buyer who paid me with a Canadian postal money order. Payment was in US dollars, but my bank would not take it. I went to the US post office to cash the money order. They did cash it, but I had to wait at the post office for a half an hour for someone to call Canada and confirm the money order was good before they cashed it. Twice I have purchased items from overseas sellers (one Germany the other the Philippines), where the cost of shipping turned out to be major factor in the return and I kept items I was not happy with rather than argue over who paid the shipping costs.

Now many will say there are solutions to all of these issues, but none of the solutions come without the expenditure of time and energy. Yes, it is laziness.

On the issue of how I would feel about an overseas seller not selling to me because I am in the US? I am fine with it, why wouldn't I be fine with it? But then I've never understood the "entitlement" mentality of others. If buyers are not required to buy items from overseas sellers, why should a seller be required to sell overseas?

Hopefully this discussion will have some constructive value and perhaps some sellers who made their decisions not to sell overseas will change their position and open up their markets to overseas sales. However, I would also hope that those that seem so enraged that a seller chooses not to sell overseas could come to respect that decision, even if they do not agree with it.

Doug

When I post, I state the price - "Shipped in the ConUS". If a buyer overseas wants the item, He will have to pay for safeguarding the shipment and arrival above domestic postage, otherwise I wont ship. There is no way to calculate the expense of international shipping without a destination, as opposed to domestic parcels. So, just ask...

The ship to cost is usually just listed for the local market and you have to contact the seller for actual S&H outside that market...but this is a slightly different issue than what the thread seems to be about.

------------------------------------------------

to Michael's Q, Pete. My "ConUs only" refers to the price I'm listing, not to where I'm shipping...

I too used to only sell CONUS, but changed my mind as I became more comfortable buying and selling from total strangers, in some cases in another country. When we want to purchase from someone, we generally want some references or at least have some knowledge about the seller. So, the reverse of this is to know about the buyer. For instance, I have had several transactions with people who have outstanding reputations on this forum and a couple of other forums with no problems. They have not all gone smoothly, because either the item was not in as good of shape as advertised or it was simply the incorrect item. However, even these went smoothly because myself and the other party were being both respectful and sincere in our attempts to work things out, which we did. Remember, regular forum members generally do not want bad reputations on the forums they frequent. Being a bad seller or bad buyer will get you black listed pretty quickly. However, it also seems that regular posters are pretty decent folks to begin with, at least that has been my experience.

I think some details need to be agreed upon before conducting any transaction on both sides, buyer and seller. And this could be said for any transaction, not just overseas transactions. For buyers, get references, ask questions, get pictures, communicate, be respectful, be patient. For sellers, get references, answer questions, send pictures, communicate, be respectful, be patient.

It's pretty easy to agree upon things like cost to ship, providing a tracking number or even a scan of the shipping label like Chronograph.com provides. It seems the biggest concerns are receiving the item/items. So, some agreements should be made in cases of the item/items being delayed at customs, sloooow shipping, damage, and even theft resulting in the item/items never arriving. If these details were mutually agreed upon before payment and/or shipping I believe there would be fewer problems.

Here is the U.S Postal Service webpage, it provides several options for sending items overseas.
http://www.usps.com/business/international/welcome.htm


Mike

I'm one of those ignorant, lazy, xenophobic, and uninformed Americans who marks my sales "CONUS only." Why? Because I have found overseas exchanges with individuals and businesses to be more prone to problems - the shipping is somewhat more expensive and complicated, there are more problems with unscrupulous postal clerks (in some places), and if there is a problem, there is a greater likelihood of language differences making it harder to resolve a problem. Most of these are no-fault situations but increase the chance for hassles anyway.

When I purchase from overseas, I am often dealing with a business that has a reputation to check and a reputation to protect. When I'm selling overseas I'm often selling to an individual where, because of the international nature of things, it is harder to hold people accountable if something goes wrong. I do this as a hobby, not as a business, so increased hassle equals less enjoyment of my hobby, not more sales.

I recognize also that, because of the size and relative economic strength of the USA consumer marketplace, we stateside sellers have the ability to insulate ourselves more - this is not a flattering statement, I realize, but it's a reality.

That said, when someone has inquired, I have often sent items overseas as long as the buyer is willing to cover additional costs and understands the greater risks (as I am when I buy from overseas) and seems to be otherwise reputable. This thread, however, is making me rethink the whole matter - the last thing I want to do is stand in the way of the ability of others to pursue their hobby, and I know I appreciate the ability to purchase from overseas. I love the international nature of SCWF and brag to my wife and friends about this. It helps to know people thru the forum. I would not think twice to send something to Orient King or Etienne, or other familiar forum members, but I would definitely think twice about saying "yes" to someone who seems to come "out of the blue." And, on eBay, I am extra-cautious. So maybe I will think about a way to do this other than "CONUS only" that seems to come across to others like a stone wall. Aside from the not-helpful insults, this is a good thread. David

We have talked about this allot -
but I will say what I always say- I buy from all over so I will be happy to return the favor- at your cost.

If its like a strap- or parts and the cost is low I will pay it.
If it is a watch- I want the seller to pay it.
But often it is to someone I know so I am happy to work it out.

I like insurance. And I like delivery confirmation. And I try not to ship without it. And tracking is not available with some countries
if you are not shipping EMS or fedex or DHL.

When I list I include delivery and insurance with the price.
When you want me to send it to you wherever, Ill do it, but I wont pay for it.

the weakening dollar, and increased shipping makes it expensive for me-
so I want you to pay it, without using EMS shpping from countries
like Singapore cost us 5$ usually much much less.

If I do it from here it costs me about 20$ to ship worldwide with insurance.
So I don't think its unfair for me to ask for the seller to pay actual cost.
past the 10$ or so.

kmc

Lets all thank Kevin Chan and Larry Biggs, and Use the Search tool.

is the insurance. If you send USPS and you use EMS the postal handbook excludes watches so if its lost your out of luck. You can ship international registered but the insurance to most European Countries is limited to some rediculous amount way less than $100. Fedex and UPS don't cover watches and are very expensive outside the U.S.

So how do you insure the watch? If the other party agrees that I won't be responsible for loss fine but if that happens I suspect there will be much unhappyness. I have shipped EMS many times with no problems but its just a matter of time before something is lost or stolen.

If I ship within the USA I never have to wait in line at the post office.

I weigh the package at home, print the postage, and drop it in the 24hr drop box at the post office.

I do ship internationally from time to time, but each time I've done it I've had to take time off in the middle of a work day to go wait in line to hand my package, along with customs form, to a clerk.