The bill is being debated in congress right now, it's mission is to reduce CO2 emissions through various means one in particular would cap the CO2 emissions allowed by law on industry & if they go over the mandated cap, they will have to buy credits from an industry that emits less than their mandated cap.
This looks like an open appeal for fraud on a grand level to me. How many straw industries will be organized on paper just to take advantage of the money to be made by allowing dirty industry to buy their "clean carbon footprint"? Who really benefits? Does this actually reduce greenhouse emissions or is it just re-distributing and itemizing CO2 industry gas so the fed. can manipulate some figures for taxation and media spin? Why do global warming proponents own interest in the carbon trading companies that will make a killing off this on the market if or when legislation passes? And, finally, why does John McCain support this bill?

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/5/10/83157/2597

http://thehill.com/business--lobby/warner-lieberman-bill-could-raise-gas-prices-2008-05-19.html

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"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." - P.J. O'Rourke


-Pete

.

-Steve

...but he needs to learn the real intent of the "man made global warming crisis"; Taxation & growing government bureaucracy.
Let me know how a cap & trade law will reduce industrial CO2 and save our planet from certain impending peril. When you figure it out, let us know, because I'm having a hard time with it.

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"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." - P.J. O'Rourke


-Pete

it sounds like a great way for a few people to make a lot of money while not really fixing the problem. Evidently farmers will have carbon credits to trade?!? I'm a little fuzzy on all this but it does sound like a plan ripe for future fraud and scandal.

I agree too. I am not a fan of cap and trade. I am more of a fan of a top to bottom overhaul in the way we get our energy in this country. Cap and trade opens the door for fuzzy math and corruption in my humble opinion, and what we do in this country will have no effect on what the Chinese and other developing countries will do.

Get rid of fossil fuels altogether. Since its a finite resource, one way or another we will be weened off our fossil fuels.

Ben

"The less we say about it the better...Make it up as we go along"

-Talking Heads

Politicians are obviously at odds with scientists on how to deal with the issue of global warming. There is already a price tag placed on global warming, $45 trillion dollars, that's trillion with a "T". (USA's annual budget $3 trillion). When we start putting price tags on anything, to include even an alleged crisis, it means somebody's looking more for money and less for actual solutions.

As I've said before, free market economics will have us off fossil fuels faster than government dictates, mandates, deadlines, and taxation. Those will cause economic hardship for everybody involved, sort of like government mandated ethanol development has done for the starving nations and everyone's grocery bills.
People want hydrogen powered cars, Ben. There's a huge demand for a non fossil fuel burning vehicles right now! If we had them, GM Ford, and Chrysler would have banner yera with profits unseen by any corporation save for Exxon/ Mobil. But, know why GM hasn't got one in the showroom floor? Because despite the internet rumors, the technology isn't there yet to build a cost effective reliable version for popular use and no government can speed it up via hair-brained deadlines, cap & trade schemes, carbon footprint taxation, and political lip service.
We need to drill our own oil in ANWR, Dakota, and the Gulf. Yeah, it won't be on line until roughly ten years out, but the impact of just passing the legislation to start the work will shake OPEC enough that they'll open their tap up a little bit more. Oh, and if Clinton didn't veto the ANWR drilling bill that passed congress in 1994, that oil would have been in the pipeline right now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_sc/japan_iea_climate_change

http://www.american.edu/ted/alaska.htm

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"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." - P.J. O'Rourke


-Pete

Pete, I agree 100% the market will drive the innovations that we need to solve this issue.

As for hydrogen cars, the source of Hydrogen...? Would you believe it comes form Natural Gas! Another finite resource! Or we can split water and get the hydrogen from there, but you know what, it take ELECTRICITY to split the water and where does that flow of electrons come from? You guessed it, fossil fuel (primarily).

Also, infrastructure to distribute the Hydrogen, and more than that, I am not sure I want to be the one doing the crash tests with 300 pounds of compress hydrogen in the trunk of my car.

Hydrogen is not the answer.

"The less we say about it the better...Make it up as we go along"

-Talking Heads

Now we're getting somewhere.

"Or we can split water and get the hydrogen from there, but you know what, it take ELECTRICITY to split the water and where does that flow of electrons come from? You guessed it, fossil fuel.."

It doesn't have to come from coal burning plants and you know it. Part of that GW $45 trillion dollar price tag is for development of nuke plants. I am in complete favor of nuclear power, the Navy has been using nuke power for decades with excellent results. We need to work on storage for the spent fuel rods, though. I'm sure we can launch a payload of them out of Earth's orbit at some point.

We have electric motors that'll snap your neck with torque and horsepower, if we could make a small efficient solar panel that'd charge the batteries & had compact backup generators, an alternative car can't be too far off, eh?

We will never agree that mankind's CO2 discharge is entirely to blame for global warming, but I'm game for real solutions to eliminate it, if we must. What we need to do is keep the politicians out of the loop, this is their new source for a "money grab", wouldn't you agree?

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"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." - P.J. O'Rourke


-Pete