Just what is our purpose here?.........Or rather, what should our purpose be?
It seems over the last few weeks this thread has deteriorated into a den of madmen. The web has always been inhabited by a cross section of looney tunes, paranoid schizophrenics, snake oil salesmen, plaid jacketed used car dealers, and electronic evengelists. On rare occasions you find men of integrity and sound judgement. I'm afraid you will find few of the later here.
It's no wonder most people with at least half of their faculties shun these forums like the mind altering plague they usually turn out to be.
I certainly hope we can get back on track, and have some honest, intelligent discussion on this topic. I would certainly not wish to be forced to withdraw because a few here cannot get out of the way of their own twisted egos.
This investigation centers around the horrific and untimely deaths of 230 innocent, men, women and children in one of the worst airline disasters in aviation history.
I resent the fact that some here have attempted to turn this public forum into a cesspool of wild speculation and absurd ramblings. Let's stick to the FACTS, shall we?
Ian Goddards' most recent EMP "revelation" seems to have been the catalyst which has set off this round of fertilizer flinging. Ian is entitled to his theories, even if they are devoid of any factual basis. What we're being treated to here is a trip down Alice's rabbit hole.......the ultimate destination being a rather bizarre tea party.
Ian has YET to address several factual questions raised by Trevor and others. If he truly IS an "investigative journalist" seeking the truth, why does he refuse to answer these honest rebuttals? Why does he persist in his disinformationalist ramblings? He seems incapable of a response to ANYONE who questions his theories, without employing his usual fact twisting double speak.
I apologize to those who may be lurking here in the hopes of gleaning some thought provoking information re: Fl. 800. I also apologize for allowing my own testosterone enhanced ramblings from being spewed out in this mini editorial. I am frankly incensed--I admit it-- and hope I am able to bite my tongue in the future. I WILL NOT allow any of this however, to sidetrack me from my goals. There is no intention on my part to be sucked any further into this abyss of intellectual excrement.
Mr. Goddard should address the following questions:
Where is the evidence a "spark" caused by an electrical surge through the FQIS of Fl. 800 caused the CWT to explode?
Please provide 1 DOCUMENTED example of a spontaneous explosion in the CWT of a Boeing 747. (Provide the causal initiating event)
Provide ANY evidence in your possession that the US Patent you reference in your EMP scenario has in fact ever been translated into an effective working weapon.
Please provide the investigative determinations in your references to "lightning strikes" as the causal factors in Wing tank explosions. Place SPECIFIC emphasis on those examples where the lightning DID NOT puncture the tank. (Try and stay, if you can, in the later half of the Twentieth Century)..........Sight examples, ANY examples of the explosion of JETA1 vapors, set off by electrical anomalies where the fuel was NOT MISTED.
If you can't or won't address these issues. Please do me a favor, and simply DON'T RESPOND.
You wield Tobin like a sword, as if he is the definitive oracle for the truth about this investigation.
Weren't there others inside the investigation who told very different stories about the way the investigation was handled - and what was being found?
I guess Tobin didn't like being spat on and cursed by Kallstrom, it must have made him damned angry toward the jerk.
As long as you stay on that side of the fence and refuse to look over it, you will continue to be viewed with suspicion. As long as you pour the same lengthy rubbish onto websites - when you have your own, you will continue to be treated as you are.
Note total lack of offense, merely an observation, you have a viewpoint and you will stick to it. Trouble is, viewpoints are not facts, they are opinions based on ones personal bias and prejudice. You've chosen to ignore ALL evidence which doesn't say the witnesses were all mistaken.
Hardly an open-minded approach, more the work of a small minded individual who shuts his ears to what goes against his intransigent position.
If he's got any sense, John will take heed of the advice and refuse to acknowledge your existence.
Your response will no doubt be to dump Tobins testimony on this site for about the zillionth time, because it supports your rigid approach to the subject.
Save your breath and fingers Elmer, everyone knows you by now.
Some have not seen Tobins testimony, but it isn't really relevant and it is very long.
Tobins position is that Kallstom was convinced there was a bomb or missile, and wouldn't hear anything to the contrary. Tobin says they found no evidence, so Kallstrom was wrong.
What is not discussed is the 6 days the Navy had to sterilise the wreckage, and even beyond that when hits were found, the evidence was sent to the FBI labs and found to be clean.
These are the same FBI labs who have been devastated by whistle-blowers ever since.
God I feel sleepy, I feel a yawn coming on..........
I must be Ian. (Private joke - only Fudd will get it)
If you ask a civil ? I'll oblige with a civil answer.
I have read Tobin's testimony..........The question you pose I believe is: Do I believe it?
The answer is: Certain parts, as I'm sure is the case in most "testimony" probably contain a measure of truth or fact.
On surface, however, it appears Mr. Tobin was setting himself up as the savior of the masses. I find it extremely difficult to see the analogy between the picture of Kallstrom as painted by Tobin, and the Kallstrom with whom I'm familiar.
If Kallstrom was hell bent on pushing a bomb or missile scenario, why did he seek for example to quash the eyewitness testimony at the Baltimore hearings? After all this certainly would have opened up just the can of worms he would have been looking for.
Wasn't it Kallstrom who unleashed the FBI minions against James and Elizabeth Sanders?
Wasn't it Kallstrom's people who have emphatically stated that the explosives residue collected on Fl. 800 was related to a St. Louis Police Dept. canine explosives training exercise even though the evidence for that statement is FAR from conclusive?
And finally, Re: My recent post on William Kabofovic,
Didn't Kallstrom's FBI in it's Nov. 18, 1997 Interim Summary Report state the following:
D. PASSENGER/BAGGAGE RECONCILIATION: All passenger flight coupons were matched to the passenger manifest. ALL PASSENGER BAGGAGE WAS IDENTIFIED.
So, in a nutshell, my opinion of Tobin's testimony is:
I see you offer even Elmer a courteous and patient response. I see also that you question the point of his contributions.
I must take issue with the suggestion that there is no point to Elmers output however.
I haven't yet reached a solid conclusion, but he pops up whenever something new rears its head. Ians recent contributions to this board may have been the trigger, but it could also be your presence which attracts him.
What we do know is that Elmer has a penchant for quantity over quality, he regularly dumps huge tracts of text onto the sites he infests, seemingly, for no other reason than to clog up the bandwidth or site resources.
Tobins testimony is his favourite, it is very long and Elmer loves this guy Tobin. Apart from that, Elmer is an expert in analysing witness testimony and will lecture for hours on why rising is in fact falling.
I wonder if Elmer is the researcher for Mayer in his destruction of witness 649's statements. Luckily there are serious individuals out there like Tom Shoemaker who take the time, unpaid, to go to the spot where this man was and lay open the truth for those of us who are really interested.
Compared to a mosquito, Elmer is a minor annoyance. Compared to Tom Shoemaker Elmer is an intellectual gnat.
I suggest we let him continue his ravings unanswered, he does eventually get bored - but he will become petulant first - watch out for large posts and offensive cartoons, follow no links.
Pretend his posts are animal deposits on the sidewalk, and treat them with the same caution.