It seems he was never in the military, has no traceable geneology, no address, no phone, no birth announcements, no death records, no SS #.......NO NOTHING.

He wasn't on the passenger list. If someone borrowed his luggage, which I can't verify yet.......You'd still expect to come up with SOMETHING on this guy.........But what you get is Zilch, nada, zero.

Seems to fit the general scenario here though.....Just a few too many "coincidences" for my liking.

Let's see, no missiles, but plenty of witnesses....No missiles, but "anomalous" radar returns........No drone (or missile) launches, yet the FBI, and CIA can't ID the Kabot photo image.

No bombs, yet there are explosive residues, supposedly from a canine exercise (not proven).

The Sanders residue, apparently NEVER analyzed by the FBI, even though they say it was.

Unidentifiable luggage from a man who seems to have no past, or present references. ANYWHERE!

I don't know.........YOU tell me......Who was William Kabofovic?

First, a disclaimer. I have NOT been following the Kabofovic debate going on around here. But from what I glean from the above post is that luggage bearing that name was found among the F800 debris. Correct?

And a background check on that person yielded no results. Correct?

But there's another possibility besides a passenger on board or borrowed luggage. Luggage gets mixed up on flights all the time. William Kabofovic might not be an American. No citizenship equals no SS#, no birth certificate, no military records, etc.

"Unidentifiable luggage from a man who seems to have no past, or present references. ANYWHERE!"

By "ANYWHERE," did you also include Europe?

William Kabofovic could be sipping an espresso in a cafe in Prague right now, or Berlin, or Paris, or London, or....

U tell I.

{0}FOB

I checked Europe........I checked particularly, Greece and France........Nada.......I checked Japan.....Nada.......Australia.......Nada.........I have just about exhausted the possibilities......Oh, yes, I checked Russia.......nada.

Now, I agree with you, the scenario could be as you state.

Here's a challenge for you...........Run surname Kabofovic thru let's say Ancestry.com....or just do a cursory telephone listing search.......Run it everywhere and anywhere, and find me 1 single Kabofovic.....But you won't......Believe me, you won't.

I'll tell ya something else........I am VERY good at finding people.......It's often part of my job as a legal investigator.......But this boy has me stumped.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Becker said the FBI showed her a photograph of a badly mangled beige canvas bag with a leather shoulder strap and trim and asked whether she recognized it.

"They didn't say where the blown up bag was located," said Mrs. Becker. "It was pretty well blown apart, but still recognizable as a bag."


She said FBI agents asked a series of questions intended to rule out the possibility that a passenger might have been inadvertently part of a plot to destroy the plane. Among these were: did the passenger pack his or her own bags, did they carry a bag on board on behalf of someone else, did someone recently take out a life insurance policy in the name of the passenger, and did he or she have an ex-partner or spouse who would want to do them harm.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

YOU tell ME

I'm not drawing any conclusions at this point, but I want to throw one more possibility on the table.

"William Kabofovic" may be a completely fictitious name. (I'm sure you already confirmed the spelling.)

Who would invent a name and put it on luggage? I don't know. And for what purpose? I don't want to speculate at this point.

But it's possible that bag was never on board F800. There's no way to confirm whether it actually was or not.

Another question. How confident are you in that "Becker" person, the story about the canvas bag and the name?

U tell me...

FOB_n0

http://www.cnn.com/US/9610/27/twa/

I'm still looking into it...........Possible the spelling is wrong, I guess.

Going to contact CNN.........and based on that info. I'll probably file an FOIA, although because the FBI is STILL really not out of it.......I doubt it will yield any results............We'll see.

ALL thoughts are appreciated.

"The FBI began interviewing family members after sending out a letter from FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom asking for assistance in the investigation."

The above quote is how that CNN story ended. As Bob knows, Kallstrom knows a lot more about this case than he's ever admitted publicly. (And I'm not just talking about the admission of Navy ships on classified ops in the vicinity of the shootdown.)

And he knew in October of 1996 that a canvas bag had NOTHING to do with the downing of F800. Now that I know "Kabofovic" originated with Kallstrom and the FBI, I am confident that the name IS fictitious.

Just another effort to throw the press off-track. That's how cover-ups work.

If you really want to know where the name "William Kabofovic" came from, ask James Kallstrom. I'm sure he knows the answer.

No_FOB

Another effort to "throw the press off track".......Well, I kinda doubt that it achieved the desired results......if in fact that was the game plan.

Fact is.......everytime I mention this news item to anyone, I get the "deer in the headlights look".....apparently.........the whole thing has been overlooked, or there is a simple explanation, and I just haven't found it yet.

I don't think you can draw the conclusion at this time, that the bag "had nothing to do with Fl. 800"

It may have had ALOT to do with it.......OR.....You may be right......Or......Perhaps somewhere in between the two.

The problem here is as I see it:........IF the canvas bag was in fact "unidentified"........no passenger families were familiar with the name.......it was NOT identified as coming from a previous flight, or was somehow simply a "misdirected" piece of baggage. Then the FBI assertion that ALL luggage was identified and accounted for is FALSE.

The next question would be, how would the bag tie in with the witness reports of flares and/or streaks of
light?

The bag MIGHT indicate a possible bomb or incendiary device.....while the witnesses MIGHT suggest a missile scenario.

Now PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME for the following remarks.........I do believe, and I have found it to be so on my own in other investigations....that "eyewitness reports".......must usually be placed at the bottom of the list in almost ANY investigation in terms of priority, and reliability.

That IS NOT to say they should be discounted.......But it is a fact, that people tend to see MANY things that do often turn out to be erroneous. Many things come into play when evaluating eyewitness, or earwitness reports. I ran into this when I looked into the Kennedy assassination. SOME people in Dealey Plaza and the vicinity reported as many as SEVEN "gunshots".

In any event, I have contacted CNN and I'm waiting for their reply.

Selected texts:

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

Safety Recommendation

Dated February 18, 1997
In reply refer to: A-97-11

"Worked alone rather than with the K-9 team trainer........

"used deteriorated explosives training aids........

"did not notify anyone about the trace amounts of explosives released inside the aircraft cabin."

"Did not log the removal of the explosive training aids from the storage bunker and their return to the storage containers at the completion of the proficiency exercise OR DOCUMENT THE TAIL NUMBER OF THE AIRCRAFT USED....."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The complete NTSB document

http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/twa.800/what.wrong/ntsb.d/d1.html

The desired effect would be to make the press (and much later, investigators) concentrate on terrorists or a "mad bomber" instead of all of those witnesses who saw streaks of light in the sky. (That was before the NTSB settled on its CWT theory.)

The reason everybody's forgotten about the canvas bag by now except you is because the "lead" was a dead end. Which makes me question whether or not it was a genuine lead at all. You said yourself you can't find a trace of any "William Kabofovic" ANYWHERE. Why do you think that is?

The totality of the evidence supporting a shootdown is overwhelming. The witness reports are not ambiguous as to what those streaks of light or "flares" rising UP from the horizon were. They do NOT support the explosive device planted on board scenario. Or the CWT scenario, either. And when you have hundreds of people saying basically the same thing, the reliability that the event occurred as described is astronomical.

The fact that F800 was shot down is not in question in my mind, or ARAP's, or FIRO's, or Sanders,' or Goddards, or just about anybody but an unmentionable person who was recently "barred" (and the NTSB).

I stand behind the fact the James Kallstrom KNEW he was dealing with a shootdown soon after it happened. The fact that the FBI under his direction was questioning F800 families about "Kabofovic" as late as October of '96 AND the fact that it was made known to the press indicates to me that it was a false lead INTENTIONALLY planted. It's called disinformation and it takes MANY forms.

I have a lot of other information in my head that also leads me to that concluion. Too much to share. But the bottom line is, I believe, you can't find a trace of "William Kabofovic" because he came from the FBI's fictitious names file.

U tell me.

No_FOB

In your assertions about Kabofovic and FBI fictitious names files...........then, quite frankly, that would be sufficient for me.

My goal continues to be a Congressional investigation.

I don't know whether in fact the lead was a "dead end"........no one followed up........or exactly what the case may be.

The bag was either: not related to F800, was related and was innocuous---was planted by someone and is quite relevant---or---was an invention of the FBI, or CIA, as you believe.

The question in my mind now, is to attempt to make that determination.

If that canvas bag did indeed contain a bomb, then it would be covered with explosive residue. The FBI would have no trouble verifying that.

And we all know that the FBI and NTSB did not go down the bomb scenario path in the end.

So that bag could NOT have brought down F800, unless the FBI covered up the existence of explosive residue. But it makes no sense to cover that up and interview F800 victim family members at the same time which would leak the story into the press.

So where did the bag come from? Was that torn apart canvas bag bearing an untraceable name REALLY found among F800 debris? I find that unlikely. It's possible a passenger could have unwittingly brought it on board, but like I said, if it brought down F800 the explosive residue would tell the tale.

And if there were no such foul play, then where did the untraceable name come from?

I guess you should keep looking for "William Kabofovic" just in case.

But until you find him, any way you slice it the name is a dead end.

But an interesting dead end.

No_FOB

First, I never stated the bag contained a bomb.....I just want to clear the air on that one.

However, I'm not sure there weren't in fact traces of "explosive residue" on that bag, just as there WERE obvious traces in the cabin for instance, which has been attributed to the canine exercise.

In any event, I'm going to point you to a very bizarre URL .............the ONLY purpose of which is educational. My purpose in doing so, is to merely demonstrate to borrow an old phrase......"their are more things in Heaven and Earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

The following URL points to an incendiary device that can be made from "Strawberry Pop Tarts"......Yeah, you read it right!



Now, before evryone thinks I'm completely daft......if they don't already.........I AM NOT suggesting that Strawberry Pop Tarts have ANY relevance to our discussion, other than to elucidate the fact that.....while people with their own agendas often time find things that they are looking for......(whether they're really there are not)........we many times miss things we are not looking for.

It's late here, and apparently WAY past my bedtime!............

Wow! You might have given that information sooner John, we can't get poptarts over here any more - not from Kellogs anyway - my little group of anarchists could have made a killing in Seattle with those babys!

'Watch it men, they're bringing up the poptarts - they really mean business this time.'

I guess in your wonderful country you can get 40 years for possession of a deadly breakfast cereal? Lock 'em up I say, damned urbane terrorists.

Actually I read yesterday that you can get jailed for suggesting something might be a conspiracy, Jim Sanders must have got cooked by that one.

Where did you read that little diddy?.....First off it's gotta be crap.....Second it has nothing to do with Sanders.

Another example of your "Brit" sense of humor?

John,

It may well be crap, but it isn't the result of my humour. I'll see if I can dig it up again, trouble is I've read a zillion documents since that one, it may take some finding.

John,

You've cost me a deal of time today trying to drag that one back. Anyway, I think I know where I got it, and having read some of the output on that site - I think you may be right.

Whilst searching for it I came across a pice on 990, the guy said that releasing CVR data is never done - except for 990. Now even I know that's crap, so maybe all his stuff is crap - who knows?

Skolknik - ring any bells?

I think the spelling's right. Anyway, it was alleged that you could get 5 years for spreading rumours or fomenting suspicion - or something like that.

It's not worth the research.......

Let's just call it crap and have done with it.

By the way, I thought the witless Fudd was Barred?????

..........perhaps some sage advice...Believe nothing that you hear.....and......half of what you see!............. ...........it works for me.

Yes, I see Fudd has returned..........Maybe some of those "scrubbing bubbles".....will do the trick. The man is definitely like an old shower curtain!