Golden Dawn (Login goldendawn) BW Member from IP address 203.128.91.18
I was just in Belgium and bought a budget cd of Jacques Brel. I read that he died in 1978, so some years after Bowie's covers of his songs. Does anyone know whether they met? Are there any accounts of it, if they did?
Thanks,
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Yes Stranger, Bowie did meet Genet in Paris, but it was related to Lindsay Kemp's stage version of Genet's novel Notre Dame des Fleurs . It's mentioned briefly in Edmund White's biography of Genet.
I read that Bowie tried to meet Brel , I think it was in Paris at the olympia and Brel just refused to meet him and was very rude. According to what I know he used a few homophobic insults to talk about Bowie and called him a "tapette" (I think a good equivalent in English would be a nancy-boy)
izzy, I watched an excellent documentary on Brel once (BBC4 I think?) And it was fascinating and I loved the man, but for some reason towards the end of his life he became quite homophobic and used gay insults very much, do you think this was the alcohol talking?
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"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
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According to Jérôme Soligny, Bowie tried to meet Brel in 1973 while he was in Paris and brel refused saying "J'en ai rien à foutre de cette pédale" (I don't give a fuc* about that poof). Brel's refusal to meet Bowie is also mentionned in Bowiestyle.
As for Brel, he was a litterrary genius but I'm afraid he was a bitter bast*** too, especially toward the end of his life. Intolerance, narrow mindedness arrogance are not incompatible with talent.
BrianBrain (Login BrianBrain) BW Member 82.36.231.108
Re: Jacques Brel
July 8 2008, 6:55 PM
I've also read about some of Brel's homophobic attitude towards the end of his life. It may've been the drink, but still that's no excuse. Seems he was a great songwriter/composer but a rather bigoted man, at least towards the end of his life.
What's far more intriguing to me is Bowie's meeting with Jean Genet - a far superior figure to Brel. I wonder how that went? It would be interesting to hear Bowie's recollection of that. Has he ever referred to it in any interviews over the decades?
<<I've also read about some of Brel's homophobic attitude towards the end of his life. It may've been the drink, but still that's no excuse>>
I certainly wasn't letting him off the homophobic hook by implying it was soley the alcohol, I meant it was the drink making him just let lose with his vile mouth towards gays.
____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
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As far as I'm aware, Bowie didn't even get close to any meeting with Jean Genet. Him and Satre were going through a lovers tiff and Genet refused to meet anyone, let alone some English pop star.
Do you mean genet was a superior figure with regard to their humanity and open mindedness or only to their talent?
Well, between homophobia and antisemitism, it is a difficult choice ! Genet defended leftist political ideas while praising Hitler, took side for the poor and the oppressed of the world while agreeing with the oppression and extermination of the Jews.
According to Jean Paul Sartre Genet's antisemitism was only a pretense; he wrote "Genet est antisémite. Ou plutôt il joue à l'être". Well OK then...but that would only make it worse imo, because how can you write antisemitic lines if you know those ideas are rubbish ? I don't get it.
It is often noble to defend the undefendable, but it can also be contemptible sometimes.
As for their talent, it is a bit difficult to compare. Ok they both wrote but you can't compare Bowie and Caruso although they both are/were singers.
As for Bowie meeting Genet, I thought he had only tried to meet Genet but Genet was not in a condition to meet anyone that day.
From my readings Jean Paul Sartre's life long companion was Simone de Beauvoir, so it does seem odd he had a lovers tiff with Jean Genet, but then what do I know?
____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________
Well, as seems to be my usual excuse these days, I have a photo of Sartre and Genet, but it's back in Edinburgh.
Read the Gillmans book 'Alas David Bowie' and it says that Bowie sent Coco and Geoff McCormack out to arrange a meeting. They trawled the gay areas of Paris and found him, but he wasn't willing to talk to Bowie.
I never knew that Bowie could speak French, so what would the point be anyway?
It would be interesting to hear Bowie's recollection of that
July 8 2008, 10:02 PM
I checked the Edmund White biography and there's a brief mention of their meeting. They met in London (not Paris as I mentioned earlier) and it was to discuss a proposed filming of Our Lady Of The Flowers in which Bowie was to play the lead character Divine. There's no other info about the meeting.
I think it's safe to rule out any affair between Sartre and Genet; there's no evidence to suggest it,and in any case, Sartre was heterosexual. They were friends but that's as far as it went.
BrianBrain (Login BrianBrain) BW Member 82.36.231.108
Re: Jacques Brel
July 8 2008, 9:50 PM
A friend of mine who has the Edmund White biography of Genet (regarded as the defintive one by critics, it runs to over 800 pages as well!) has just emailed me this after I asked him to check the Bowie link.
"From page 572....
About this time Genet had a fleeting contact with another English rock star, David Bowie. David Bowie wanted to star as Divine in a film version of 'Our Lady Of The Flowers'. Genet and Bowie agreed to meet at a particular restaurant in London. The others in Genet's group looked around for Bowie in vain, but sharp-eyed Genet spotted an attractive woman sitting by herself and went up to her table and said, "Mr Bowie, I presume." His presumption was accurate."
This is sourced from an interview the author (White) had with a person called Paule Thevenin in 1989 and which is acknowledged at the back of the biography.
Sounds quite an intriguing encounter..
Izzy, I see your point about comparing Brel to Genet. I suppose it's slightly superfluous to compare the two as I did because they both worked in very different fields. I guess I was trying to say that for me Genet was far more important overall as a cultural figure in the arts; he was a maverick renegade whose writings both in prose, poetry and theatre impacted like a bombshell on the literary scene post WW2. Yes, some of his views were highly questionable to say the very least - but his influence on a whole range of people from Burroughs to Bowie from Warhol to the underground scene of the 60's and especially to gay culture and beyond cannot be denied. He did seem a complex man - like you say supporting extreme leftish causes whilst at the same time holding some strong anti-semitic views. Maybe this stemmed from his complex childhood and a life spent as an outsider, from being abandoned as a child to being incarcerated in some of France's most notorious prisons, as well as being a vagabond roaming throughout Europe as tramp, beggar, thief and prostitute. A life indeed! And no doubt it contributed towards his singular character. It makes for a fascinating life story and I'll definitely be giving that White biography a read some day.
