murf, you have been ridiculed numerous times for your fanatical support of the war and your vague claims that we absolutely must fight in Iraq to kill "them" (aka "the cowards"). Your responses lack punch in part because you are unwilling or unable to give specific information about why you think waging war with Iraq was a smart, well-informed decision. Some people here having the sneaking suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about, have minimal knowledge of the local political and social issues of Iraq, and are merely parroting information you have received through conservative media sources. Here is your opportunity to dispel this criticism by telling us why you feel the way you do. Please include only substantiated facts and widely-accepted truths in your answer. Refrain from using general terms such as "the muslims," "the cowards," "the rapists," etc. Outline the established pre-war links between Al-Qaeda and Iraq, and the role the war might be playing in increasing anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. Consider the dynamics of the Sunni and Shia conflict and the role that America should play in suppressing a civil war.

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

Why in the fack does Murf need to be called out for his opinions!?!?!?!?!? I don't get this thread, BA. Why are you so facking nosy? Mind your own damned business, BA. You have a hard enough time managing your own "railroad". I mean after all, your hippie friends need to fetch you toilet paper for your treehouse in Berkeley when you have to take a sh*t.

Don't you have a friggin' PETA rally to get to or something? ONE MORE TIME FOR THE CHEAP SEATS, BA--MIND YOUR OWN F*CKING BUSINESS. Murf is just like you. He's entitled to his own opinions. Lay off.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Outline the established pre-war links between Al-Qaeda and Iraq, and the role the war might be playing in increasing anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. Consider the dynamics of the Sunni and Shia conflict and the role that America should play in suppressing a civil war.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have never one time said that there was a link to concrete evidence of Saddam and Al-qaeda.
My stance about fighting the "cowards" (using that word b/c I refuse to call them terrorist), is that they ran to Iraq to kill the evil americans and that took a bunch of them out of the attack America on american soil networks.

I don't like the war, but I refuse to attack the president or the troops during a war.
I have family and friends in the millitary and the stories they tell me about Iraq is a complete opposite of the stories that the American media tells.
Prime example.....
8 soldiers are accused of killing and raping people in a village....everyone in America go nuts, we even hat a state official attack the troops without knowing the full story....7 of the 8 of been found innocent, where is the front page news?
page 6 in a national paper in a small section....

I stand up for the war, not b/c of the policy, but b/c I know what is going on there and what the history was before we went in there, and the good that is going on.
We will never control the civil war or the violence in that region, that is a lost cause, b/c of the retardation of generations of humans that simply don't know anything else, but to just walk away is a major mistake that we will regret for many many years.

i will lfinsish later

Okay Falc, no need to get your man-bra in a knot. Let me explain. When someone vents his opinion on a public internet forum he is attempting to communicate with others. He is inviting comment and debate. murf gets called out regularly for making unsupported statements, yet he refuses to defend his comments when questioned. It gets tiresome having to make the same rebuttals to murf's opinions, so this is a chance for him to clear things up. WTF are you taking about "minding my business" and being "nosy". If people want to be left alone they don't make controversial statements on the internet. Who is trying to suppress murf's opinion? Its the exact opposite: I'm offering him a chance to clarify himself.

Now run along and get back to groping your players while pretending to teach them how to tackle.

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

"Okay Falc, no need to get your man-bra in a knot"


Yeah--just as I thought. Deflect the critizism. However, I'm just wondering one thing about you ya Liberal Manwhore. Have you ever looked at the world objectively instead of looking at the globe through your rosey-red 3-D Democrat Party Sponsored Glasses?

Everything you say seems like it comes right from www.imasturbatethinkingaboutbillandhillaryclinton.com.

Please tell me I'm wrong.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Murf is so dumb ...He doesn't even know the difference between Shiite and Shinola! <rim shot>

"I know what is going on there and what the history was before we went in there"

I respect the opinion of active soldiers that have been in combat. But don't you agree that is also a very narrow, specific point of view, rooted in 100s of hours of dedication and training?
It is not entirely objective.

What is the history of Iraq? Seriously, if you know, fill me in. When was it established, how, and what has the religious/political history been like?

Cinci-
I am not talking about the complete history of Iraq, I guess I did not make that clear...my bad.

I have been told by people who have seen the horror of Saddam and his little terror network.
Rape rooms in every castle.
Not women, but little girls forced to visit the castle on field trips.
The mass graves of hundred of thousands of humans who did not fall in step with Saddam or his family.
He did have WMD's, they were not fully functional, but he did have the money to purchase chemicals to produce these type of weapons.
When he gave an interview before they killed him, he said that he had them at one time, but failed to reproduce them after the Gulf War.
He gave the world reason to believe he still had the weapons and he did that to protect his country from Iran, that is why he decided to play games with Bush and company....he never dreamed that the American Troops would follow thru.
Of course the Weapons were gone by the time the War kicked off.
I use the same anology as a drug dealer...you tell the drug dealer that he has 6 months to get rid of the drugs or he is going to be nailed, chances are that the drugs would not be there when the cops show up.

Do you realize that there is not 1 single reporter in Iraq from any major network?
CBS said that Iraq is a non story these days.
The country has running water and electric.
Most of that country did not have these things during the Saddam era.
Hospitals and Schools have been built and the local police forces are starting to train thier own...huge step in the process.
Do you hear anything about these things?
No, b/c the media refuses to give the American troops props.
they create a lawsuit to show caskets comming home, but ignore the obvious in that region.

then the biggest reason that I support war is land and air space.
We have the biggest threat to the world right next door.
Turkey and other Muslim nations refuse the United States to use thier air space.
So if you keep an Air Force base in Iraq...then you don't need to ask for the Turkish air space...you can launch your attacks from a ton of areas.
We can protect the region...
if we pull out, then wer are creating a huge problem









“…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

Long time lurker here, wont say much, but this has to be said.

Murf you are the dumbest mother ****er to ever live you dont know **** about what you say. Your just trying desperately to believe what they tell you to justify this wrong war. Damn I wish I could believe it was just, but I cannot it was wrong in 2003 and it's wrong now. Iraq was not this low life country that you think it was I dont care how many red necks or fox "news" schleps tell you so, I was there dickbrain and I know. They had running water, electricty, hospitals, and colleges damn are you so hung up on your butt buddy bush that you will believe anything to justify this atrocity on us.

BA did you really expect murf to give you proof in what he believes or says. Well you'll never get it just more opinion backed up by bs, nice job murf. At least he never betrays himself just another opinionated whore unable to think for himself and regirgitate the opinion of another red neck talk radio host.

"Long time lurker here, wont say much, but this has to be said."


Yeah? You forgot to mention that you lack ballz, sir/ma'am. Why don't you login get a real post? You're a bigger puzzy than Gretto, Dunn, and BA put together--and those guys are ultra-San Francisco sssssssssssssssssssssenssssssssssssssssssstive. LMAO.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Whatever sounds like "MulletKatie".

"I have been told by people who have seen the horror of Saddam and his little terror network"~Murf W. Bush

...OMFG LMMFAO Another one of murf's Classic Patented extremely vague references that fits his opinion. How can you say that with a straight face? You can't even make a reference to who said this to you? Are you worried The Pentagon might find out? LOL

Is this Info from the same Insiders you claim to know that work with the Bengals? Which you've never been correct about, either.

Murf you are the dumbest mother ****er to ever live you dont know **** about what you say. Your just trying desperately to believe what they tell you to justify this wrong war. Damn I wish I could believe it was just, but I cannot it was wrong in 2003 and it's wrong now. Iraq was not this low life country that you think it was I dont care how many red necks or fox "news" schleps tell you so, I was there dickbrain and I know. They had running water, electricty, hospitals, and colleges damn are you so hung up on your butt buddy bush that you will believe anything to justify this atrocity on us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once again another fuching liberal idiot chimes in and flat out makes up sh!t to support his retarded thinking.
In the major cities, they had all of the modern day tech.
Read that again....in the major cities........
I guess you missed the entire part of the war that was spent protecting the CB's.
I guess you missed the news when the first childrens hospital in Southern Iraq was ever built by American soldiers and that hated company Haliburton.
I guess you missed the story about the first pipe line ever in southern Iraq to bring running water to a village that lived within 20 miles of the Sea.
I love how you and your fuching idiot liberal nut jobs, keep saying ...They tell you....
I am speaking about people who served in the millitary and have been in the fuching country for over 6 months and swear by the things that they are telling us....
My Brother was over there, I have several friends over there right now.
The Rape rooms are real....
The no electric or running water in the isolated towns...over half of the country, is real.
the warehouse filled with medication from the UN and the US, that Saddam would refuse to pass out.
The mass graves in the North and south from Saddam testing his chemicals that he never had.
lol!

now go back in Kieth Olbermans bedroom and know your role!
Facts and liberals hate each other....

Liberals and diapers are the same....
They both are full of sh!t and need to be tossed out!


“…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

Murph my man... you seem like a decent, upstanding cracker...  loyal as hell, nicest guy in the world (as long as your talking to a white anglo saxon protestant conservative).

But seriously Murph you know nothing.  You don't know anything about politics, you don't know anything about liberals, and you surely don't know anything about the BS this sitting president has pulled over the country.  Guys like you like guys like W, cause they relate to the world on your level. 

I try not to attack to much on here, and I don't really see a need to get into many of these debates on here... nobody changes their minds, and a lot of people spend way too much time looking up "proof" for their arguments.  I spend way too much time reading the crap on this board already, so why go and look up all the factoids that support my arguments when folks will let me know that the sources I found were biased, or that they have just as many factoids pointing the other way.  Seems like a waste of time.

I find some of the conservative debaters on here to be relatively interesting.  I disagree with a lot of what sf2 says but he makes some pretty well informed points.  I was kinda interested in what fulcher had to say re: the oil shale, but held back from talking about my liberal environmental views on the subject.

The difference with you murph is that you always seem to "know" somebody who knows something.  You got insider friends in the bengals organization, you know people in Iraq, you know cincinnati cops and i'm sure you must know someone somewhere in government.  You mr. murph are one big urban myth,  FOS bad mouther who highlights his ignorance by painting broad paranoid name calling strokes.  Laugh at this post all you like... but it is folks like you that we can thank for our living in a republic instead of a democracy.

 

 

 

"Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammad Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring"

murf, you're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. My issue with you is that you throw a lot of bold statements out there without providing any support. When you have a low standard of proof for yourself, you're going to tend to put too much faith in unsubstantiated reports and half-truths. I'm sorry, but second-hand reports from Gulf War vets who spent very little time in on the ground make for good stories and not much else without corroborating information.
You say that you don't care about the Iraqi people, that the people don't figure into the reasons for supporting the war. Then what is relevance of these kind of statements?:

"I guess you missed the news when the first childrens hospital in Southern Iraq was ever built by American soldiers and that hated company Haliburton. I guess you missed the story about the first pipe line ever in southern Iraq to bring running water to a village that lived within 20 miles of the Sea.
The Rape rooms are real.... The no electric or running water in the isolated towns...over half of the country, is real. the warehouse filled with medication from the UN and the US, that Saddam would refuse to pass out. The mass graves in the North and south from Saddam testing his chemicals that he never had."

That says nothing about why we as a nation should have engaged in a war with Iraq, other than because we wanted to liberate the Iraqi people. You and I both admit that ensuring the welfare of the Iraqis was very low on the priority list of the administration. So once again, you have failed to provide support for your reasoning about the war. Everyone knows Saddam was an evil man. That doesn't address terrorism issues, sectarian conflict issues, or threat to American security. If you can't speak to those things, your words carry very little weight.

It seems to me, you think that although there was no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda (and in fact, Saddam's iron-fist rule prevented such groups from embedding in Iraq), it was worth invading because the terrorists then flowed into Iraq, allowing us to kill them. Kind of like the fish jumping into the boat. What about all the insurgents that are simply against the U.S. occupation, with no affiliation with terrorist groups? What about the people that signed up for Al Qaeda in response to the invasion? Explain how the war has aided us in the fight against terrorism.

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

If we wanted to help the "children" we would be in Zimbabwe right now.

"Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammad Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring"

Belko,  feel free to add your liberal views on the environment. I might agree with you or might not, I am sure you have knowledgable information on the subject.

One thing that makes this country great is that we are able to debate and express our opinions if factual or not.

I have noticed something about this Forum.

This must be a hub for intellectual Bengal fans. Almost sounds like an oxymoron. Don’t believe me go to another Bengal forum.

Also, I have read some views on this forum which have made me question my own (oil is not one of them). A lot of individuals on here are going to have different opinions then me and that is great. I would hate to live in a world or an America where everyone’s views were identical.

 

The only thing this forum will ever be able to agree on is Mikebrownsucks

Fulcher,

I agree with you re: resident IQ of this site.  (at least for the most part).  MikeBrownSucks.Com posters are like elitest liberals that refuse to follow sheep leading administrations (you probably have seen the Mike Brown vs. Bush comparisons). 

But the question at hand... and it is a good one, is how smart are we?

I know we have at least the two lawyers.  You said you have an advanced degree. So....  I pose the question... what is the education level of posters here on old MikeBrownSucks.com?

Murph I want to know that we can still tolerate a beauty school drop out such as yourself...(but just barely).

"Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammad Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring"

The difference with you murph is that you always seem to "know" somebody who knows something. You got insider friends in the bengals organization, you know people in Iraq, you know cincinnati cops and i'm sure you must know someone somewhere in government. You mr. murph are one big urban myth, FOS bad mouther who highlights his ignorance by painting broad paranoid name calling strokes. Laugh at this post all you like... but it is folks like you that we can thank for our living in a republic instead of a democracy.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do know people in Iraq....several in fact, not guys that ran thru the desert for 10 minutes, but soldiers that have been there.
My borther is a Gulf War vet, truly don't feel the need to justify made friends defending this country.
What they tell me is what I hear...the media has no idea what is going on over there b/c they don't have reporters in Iraq anymore....

As for the Cops....not real hard to know a bunch of cops....
lol!
You got me there....
Westside of cincy...look it up.

Bengals---those who met me know the name and I have aksed them not to reveal that b/c it would demage the trust that person has in me.
Again, don't feel the need to reveal the name, some people read this board from that org.

Find your attempt at attacking very weak.
I do know people, I do have strong opinions and there is nothing wrong with having a strong opinion.
I base my opinions on information from people I know, not the media.

BA....
Lets leave it at this, the reason for invading Iraq was wrong.
I can't seriously defend the reason for the Iraqi war.
I will defend the troops and this country.
Attacking troops the way some in the country have attacked them is wrong.
Like I mentioned before....we have leaders of this country screaming about soldiers raping and killing people in a village...the wrold watches this.
now that 7 of those 8 are innocent, I don't see that same leader, holding a press confrence apologizing and making things right.
That is wrong.
I see the leaders of this country acting like Micheal Moore, just to push thier own agendas...both sides are guilty and it makes this country look like sh!t and unable to defend ourselves anymore.
As bin Laden stated....we don't have the heart to fight anymore.
The war maybe misguided, but what is done is done and leaving that region right now would be a disaster.
I am not a huge fan of Bush...
I will not be a huge fan of Obama, in fact I will be ashamed as an American to see him lead this country, but if we are at war, I will stand behind hima nd the troops.

“…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

"I am not a huge fan of Bush...
I will not be a huge fan of Obama, in fact I will be ashamed as an American to see him lead this country, but if we are at war"~Murf W. Bush

...When did Congress declare War? We are at ...a pointless "Occupation"


"I am not a huge fan of Hitler"~murf

"As bin Laden stated....we don't have the heart to fight anymore.
The war maybe misguided, but what is done is done and leaving that region right now would be a disaster."

My friend, you don't get it.

Most (90%+) of AMericans want us to kick azz in Afghanistan/Pakistan, hunt him down and capture/kill him. We have the heart for that war. This other tangent in Bush's administration to properly detour "no fly zones" and "the violation of UN sanctions" is what gets people pissed. Had Saddam attacked the USA (HAHA), we would be more than happy to support this botched exercise of military authority.


In related news...June deadliest month in Afghanistan in 7 years...SIGH

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/06/27/afghan.fighting/index.html

//what is the education level of posters here on old MikeBrownSucks.com?//

i have my BS in psych with a cog-sci minor from UCF. working on my doctorate down here in gainesville, the "berkley of the south" and home of the florida gators. Thanks to the only real social mobility program-- The Montgomery GI bill.

----------------

As most folks know I have Juris Doctor from Thomas Jefferson (small school in San Diego) and 2 Bachelors degrees from OSU (Political Science - Judicial Politics and Communication - Mass Media.



"The American Cancer Society says uninsured patients are 60 percent more likely to die within five years of their diagnosis."

"Lets leave it at this, the reason for invading Iraq was wrong.
I can't seriously defend the reason for the Iraqi war.
I will defend the troops and this country.
Attacking troops the way some in the country have attacked them is wrong."

Now that's an answer I can respect, and I think that gets to the heart of what you're trying to say. The message gets clouded sometimes when you throw in random attacks on liberals, muslims and Obama, or start talking about how bad Saddam Hussein was.
The large majority of people who oppose the war either care a lot about the troops or are relatively indifferent to them. Very few have negative feelings about the people on the ground. I've done a lot of work with vets through the VA hospital system and I've seen first hand the suffering many are going through. Unfortunately, the soldiers represent an extension of the Bush administration to some people and that's completely wrong. The sad thing is that some people want to make it seem like if you don't support the war you don't support the troops. What could be better for the troops than to end this thing and bring our boys home safe? The insurgency is never going to be completely crushed so U.S. deaths will continue as long as we stay.

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

I second that, can we all just hug and get ready for Fraidy to mop up these political posts now?

Once camp opens, the political wars will calm down.

As much as other say they dislike the politics on here, I actually enjoy them. Its nice to be able to have a dialogue with other intelligent liberals, moderates and conservatives.



"The American Cancer Society says uninsured patients are 60 percent more likely to die within five years of their diagnosis."

BA degree History from Wittenberg
MS degree Sociology of Natural Resources, Utah State.

"Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammad Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring"

You're in a great place being in the Gem State with that education.

As for mine BA in Information Systems from UC. Thanks Uncle Bernie.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

.... "Its nice to be able to have a dialogue with other intelligent liberals, moderates and conservatives."

Don't forget Murf.

I hear China disrupted some terrorists, that was the headline. Keeping an open mind I thought to myself, are these Muslims? Christians? I didn't want to prejudge so I read the article and to my surprise, it was Muslims. WOW. Then to add to the confusion, I do not recall China sending troops to Afghan or Iraq, why was this happening? Please someone explain.

"government says it has foiled a string of terrorist plots this year hatched from Xinjiang, a mainly Muslim region where Beijing accuses militant Uighurs of working with al Qaeda"

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/China_Says_Foils_Terror/2008/07/10/111606.html